7th Ed. Lizardmen's own Lore

[kermitthefrog3]

I am disapointed that lizardmen do not have thier own lore, and have to make do with the 8 main ones. This is particularly annoying as A) Most armies that have decent magic have thier own lore, and B) These lores I feel are better than the 8 in the rulebook. The 8 main lores can be good in the right situation, but dont compare to Tzeentch, Nurgle, Dark magic, Vampire magic, Tombs kings magic, and even greenskin magic.

I had some ideas for a Lizardmen lore. It involves some nice damaging spells as well as some combat boost and irritation spells.

1) Fury of the Jungle - 5+ to Cast

The slaan summons the various reptiles and snakes of the forest floor to wreak havoc upon the enemies' lines.

This spell can be used 3 different ways. Firstly it can be used to inflict d6 str 3 hits that always wound on a 4+ or better (This represents the poison of the jungle's various inhabitants) on a unit within 30" (no LOS required) Secondly, it can be used to give a friendly unit within 24" poisoned attacks (shooting and combat). Thirdly, it can be used to add a base of jungle swarms to a unit within 24", which can take them above thier starting numbers.

2) Harrowing Fever - 7+ to cast Remains in Play

Those who enter Lustria unprepared or unwanted often find themselves ravished with hideous fevers. The Slaan can use magic to manipulate these diseases and bestow them upon thier enemies during battle.

Pick an enemy unit within 24" and in LOS. roll a d6 for every model in the unit. On the roll of a 6 they succumb to the fever and take a wound with no armour saves. The unit will take damage in this way at the end of every turn the spell is still active. Units cannot shoot missile weapons or operate war machines while the spell is active.

3) Blessing of Sotek - 8+ to cast

Calling upon the the Lizardmen's most Revered God, the Slaan can embew a friendly unit with the serpent Lord's blessing, making them extremely formidable in a fight.

Pick a friendly unit within 24, even if they are engaged in close combat. The unit can reroll failed To Hit rolls in close combat and gains the armour piercing special rule until the start of the Lizardmen's next magic phase.

4) Grasping Vines - 9+ to cast

Vines and branches grasp at the enemy, slowing them down considerably and making them easy targets for the Lizardmen fighters.

Pick an enemy unit within 18" that is engaged in close combat. That unit is reduced to WS1, Automatically stikres last (regardless of ASF or any other rules they may have) and flees/pursues at one dice less than normal until the end of the turn.

5) Jaws of the Carnosaur - 11+ to Cast

Calling upon the spirit of Lustria's greatest predator, the Slaan can inflict enormous damage to the enemy.

Pick an enemy unit within 18" and in Line of sight. That unit takes D3+1 Str 7 hits.

6) Re-alignment of Contients - 13+ to Cast

A Spell that has created and destroyed worlds to carry out the great plan. It has ruined nations and caused untold deaths that the Slaan are oblivious to.

Choose an enemy unit within 24". No LOS is required. That unit takes 2d6 str 5 hits and its movement rate is halved until the end of the opposing players turn.


What do you guys think?

Thanks

Kermitthefrog3

 

[skinker]

Think it's very overpowered!

 

[walach]

i too was dissapointed that there was no lizardman lore in the new book. realistically i think we're quite well covered magically with our knowing all spells from 1 lore, free power dice and a couple of decent magic items, our own lore as well would mean either a weak lore, or having to tone down some of the existing rules (or just letting lizards be totally insane in the magic phase.... )

i dunno how long you've been playing, but back in 5th Ed, Mazdamundai had his own lore called geomancy, which fitted the fluff really nicely, and i've always hoped that would get ressurected as the 'lizardman' lore.


anyway regarding your lore, as skinker said, it's probably too powerful, though i think you could argue that of several of the non-book lores.

while your lore is mostly jungle-themed, thats not really what the slanns magic powers are about. the 6 spell fits them quite well, and to a lesser extent the 4. i think fluff wise they'd fit best with a red host army led by tennehuain (or however you spell him, the skink with beasts magic)

a couple of the effects dont make sense to me either, like why does spell 3 give armour piercing?

 

[kermitthefrog3]

Thanks for the replies.

No I havn't played 5th edition, would have liked to have seen geomancy on Mazdamundi.

I think you guys might be right and some of the spells are a bit too powerful. Spell 5 might be abit too hard hitting and number 4 might make a unit a bit too weak.

I think your also correct about some of the spells not quite suiting the slaan's magic style, but I think a few spells that reflect the Lustrian jungle is reasonable. Possibly spells the slaan uses when in the heat of battle as opposed to trying to stop an approaching army.

I wanted spell 4 to give the unit Reroll hits and another smaller benefit, ASF didnt seem right for saurus and AP seemed to make them more effective without being too powerful.

 

[walach]

obviously it being 5th ed, his spells dont really translate perfectly. but the 4 were:

move the mountains (basically pick a hill, anyone on it cannot do anything for 1 turn)

ruination of cities, which still exists at least in name (pick a building, and roll 2d6 for each model in it, if you roll more than thier T, they are killed)

earth line (draw a line to one corner of the board, any model on the line roll as for ruination of cities, except they only take 1 wound rather than dying)

part the waters (pretty much negate a water feature)


as they were only available to mazdamundai, and only in 5th ed, i cant imagine they saw much play... anyone remember if they were any use? ruination sounds pretty harsh if there's any buildings around!



anyway, hopefully that's given you some more ideas


i think reroll to hit is good enough in itself, espcially if you cast vines on the unit too! ouch!


let us know if anyone is nice enough to let you try them ^^

 

[kermitthefrog3]

Thats quite cool!

Which of the spells did you feel were too powerful? id like to see what pepople think and balance them all out. Actually, go through each of the spells and tell me if you like the concepts.

I think having a Slaan use jungle magic is perfectly reasonable, if not logical, though I respect your opinion on the matter. Its mabye not something youd hear much about in the lore, and is tends to talk about what slaan do to carry out the great plan as opposed to the magic they use in battle. You could just as easily say a slaan wouldnt use Death magic, or Shadow magic.

 

[Barotok]

This is an interesting topic that has been discussed before her on LO in various ways. I seem to remember reading some where about the reasoning behind not giving LM their own lore. I seem to remember hearing/reading somewhere that GW has expressed regret for creating so many racial lores for the game that now, the 8 basic lores are largely neglected (except by the LM). It is a little dissappointing that seemlingly every other race gets their own special lore with special spells that produce cool results that synergize with their army. However, I still hold that LM magic is some of the strongest in the game and when combined with the correct combination of casters and other units can have a devastating effect. I honestly don't think LM need a lore to be good. Even our 7th edition book doesn't make me feel like we need one, and that is saying a lot for the other books that do get their own lore.

As for your spells, they're fun to read, but I'm not too sure they'd contribute to a balanced game.

For example: Harrowing Fever - Seems that casting this on a large unit of orcs would generate a significant amount of casualties as no armor saves would be allowed. Disabling shooting/warmachines as an added effect pushes an over powered spell over the top. Consider making these two effects seperate spells. Add a roll 1D6 for the missile weapons/war machine operation. On a 6 the unit over comes the fever and is able to operate normally. Turn the damage portion of the spell into a seperate spell. The no armor saves allowed would seem ok, if the casting value was increased. Also perhaps make it a D6 number of models or D6+3?

My post wasn't made with the intention to snub your lore. I found it a good read. In terms of keeping a fair and balanced game though, some of the uniqueness needs to be sacrificed for balance. You have a lot of great ideas here!

 

[Eagleblaze]

Certainly interesting as noted above.

I do think that for those who want to dabble a bit and want to write a slann lore then don't confine yourselves to "Lustria-themed" spells, lest we not forget, these are the Slann, the most powerful spellcasters in the warhammer world, their magic is not limited only to summoning the denizens of lustria but to bending the winds of magic to their will be it with earthquakes (Mazad) or incredibly powerful area effect spells (DoI).

-Eagle

 

[KonektFor]

To me this seems to be a jungle lore, more then a lizardman lore, the Slann should have magic that reminds you of the cosmic power of the old ones, I like the first one as it reminds me of the swarm of lizards that killed the skaven, the fluff in the book has great examples of what the lizardmen can do with their magic.

 

[hellbreaker]

In my honest opinion most of the lore here feels more like a lore for Jungle elves which the Lizardmen aren't.
There are some interesting spells there but I have never felt that the Slann are dedicated to the jungle at all. They're more to the winds of magic as a whole, something I like about getting to choose between all of the 8 lores.
If anything the lore is more suited for Skink priests. (Or Jungle Elves!)

Cheers!

 

[Eagleblaze]

I think they should be able to mix and match spells from different lores, they are afterall supposed to be experts in many branches of magic and not just one specific lore and so yes there may be a counter arguement of, well people will choose the most powerful spells from each lore, and that may be fair but you still have a finite number of power dice and so having 6 13+ CV spells doesn't mean you're going to be casting 6 spells....

 

[kermitthefrog3]

I like that idea, possibly having two unique lores like Skaven.

I mean the Slaan are meant to have a phenomenal knowledge of magic, and the magic you hear about them using may/will not be what they choose to use in the midst of battle.

So the option to choose between
A Jungle Lore
A more traditional Slaan lore
The 8 Main lores

seems reasonable.