8th Ed. Lizardmen vs Empire - help needed

[nemsley]

Hi guys,
First of I do not know if this is the correct area for this post, sorry if it isn't.
Anyway, I have a game tomorrow against my friend who has recently started playing the Empire. I have played him a few of times with my other army with a varied set of results but with my lizards i have no idea how I'm going to beat him.

His army list consist of:
A light council
2 units of 1+ armour knights
4 Demi's
Steam tank
40 halberdiers
2 of the magic chariot things, one that has banishment and one that gives +1 to hit (sorry, cant remember the names)
Great cannon

My issue is that I have no idea how i can deal with the 1+ armour he has, especially the steamtank at T6 with 10 wounds. Im scared of putting out any monsters, due to cannons and S6-S7 banishment, but other than large dino's im not sure how to get past the 1+ armour.

I have not got any flying unit models or kroxigors and to be honest dont like the idea of using them as i have seen mixed reviews on the effectiveness of both units.


Any tips on this would be very helpful, the game is tomorrow so quick replies would be nice but even so it would be useful for future games

Thanks

 

[Yrtomin]

Do you have access to alot of different models? Generally the best way to deal with steam tanks/demis/knights is to use lore of metal. Scar-vets/oldbloods with greatweapon will do very well against such models, you have to be careful tho, you dont want him to get the charge with stank/demis/knights. If you dont like tailoring your lore after his army you can try all signatures on your slann, gives you searing doom and spirit leech which are both very good against high armor targets and enough auguments/hexes to make you win close combat.

Razor banner on the TG unit will be good if they get into combat with knights or demis.
I dont know if you use skink cloud (all skinks) or if you are going to use a saurus unit with skinks.
Chameleons will be a good way to deal with his cannon.
Use your skink priest to cover more ground with your slann magic.
DONT let him get in stuff like speed of light / timewarp in important fights, they are brutal on halberdiers for an example.
Terradons/rippers are good units, rippers could tear halberdiers a new one and hunt warmachines and terradons serve as chaff and redirector in important situations because of fly (dont forget to drop rocks). They can also go after warmachines.
This empire list is a hard one, you will need to respond with a hard list, show no mercy.
You should mabye consider adding magic resist to your TG unit because of banishment.
Doesn't look like monsters will have a good time against this list as you have stated.
Deployment will be crucial against this army.

 

[nemsley]

Thanks for the quick reply,
model wise i have plenty of saurus and temple guard but im lacking on skinks, i currently only have around 20 something, however many came in one box, i should however be able to borrow some models to proxy more if needs be.

I have been interested in using chameleon skinks, however my friends are generally good at keeping warmachines out of reach of them. I forgot about razor standard, that could be a good addition also what can i use to give my temple guard magic resist?

I was planning on using saurus, mainly as i do not have enough skink models and do not want to have to proxy too many.

How does an oldblood cowboy work, i have never used one, wouldn't they be very vulnerable to cannons and magic. I am interested in using one but i dont want to spend 200-250 points and have it killed on turn 1 by a cannonball

 

[Akholrak]

As @Yrtomin suggested, Wandering Deliberations might be a good call on your Slaan, you have a lot of spells which are useful in many situations. Saurus Warriors will do well against Halberdiers, but not against many other things. Razor Standard on your Temple Guard is a must. You can give the Slaan a Magic Resistance Talisman or the Magic Resistance discipline. Chameleon Skinks would be a good bet against Warmachines and can even do well at shooting the Celestial (5+ armour).

An Oldblood Cowboy can get a good Armour Save ridiculously quickly. A good build would be Armour of Destiny, Dawnstone, Other Tricksters Shard, GW on a Cold One. He could charge the Steam Tank, Demis or the Chariots and come out on top. The S7 reduces the STank and Demis to a 5+ armour and eliminates the Chariots entirely (although the War Alter has a 4+ Ward). There is the possibility of going down to a Cannon but you should use terrain to try and block line of sight. Also, if he doesn't get killed outright, you could heal a Wound with the Life lore attribute.

 

[nemsley]

Thanks,
The plan actually changed earlier today and i ended up playing doubles with the empire guy. 2000 points per army so 4000 per side.
Anyway, I got wrecked. We were against Chaos dwarfs and Chaos legions. The Kdaai destroyer wrecked its way through my stegadon, nearly all my skinks and killed my slaan, then overran into my friends steamtank and killed that. My other skinks died to fireglaives and my saurus then got into combat against great weapon chaos dwarfs and only lasted a few turns.

I had a Carnosaur but it died to the 2 skullcannons and 2 hellcannons they had in total on turn 1. overall it was a massive loss.

Keep the advice coming though as i still am going to play empire sometime soon
Thanks

 

[Chicken Lips]

Sorry about the loss. It happens though.

My very first (and largest) army was Empire. The cannons, armor, and combined arms are their strengths. Give the cannons something else to focus on (Skinks, Razordons), shoot the knights with bolt throwers (thin their numbers and they won't be a threat), spread out his army (if you can isolate a unit, you'll beat them, and take out his support (wizard wagons).

Focus on taking out his Warrior Priests first. They give his troops a huge boost with Hatred and prayers. They typically don't have very good armor. I'd also consider taking the Obsidian Blade on your Oldblood. He will be totally reliant on that 1+ armor save and this will totally take it away. After that, cutting through humans is like cutting through butter.

My Oldblood would look something like:

Oldblood (Obsidian Blade, Cold One, Light Armor, Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Luckstone)

Use the terrain to your advantage and pick your combats.

As for dealing with magic, what was suggested above is good. Metal or all Sig spells. Personally, I like all Sig spells because you have more in the way of lore attributes (Death especially) to work for you.

My Slann's build would probably look something like this:

Slann (BSB, Harmonic Convergence, Wandering Deliberations, Becalming Cogitation, Unfathomable Presence, Channeling Staff)

Give his Temple Guard either the Razor Standard, or the Standard of Discipline (for Ld10). Both work well for this unit.

I hope that gives you something to think about.

 

[n810]

 

[Scoub]

Give the cannons something else to focus on (Skinks, Razordons), shoot the knights with bolt throwers (thin their numbers and they won't be a threat), spread out his army (if you can isolate a unit, you'll beat them, and take out his support (wizard wagons).

Well, I really don't see how you could manage this. If the Imperial is shooting at your skinks with his cannon, you know you'll win the game. And your bolt throwers will often hit on a 6, which is ... 1 chance out of 6.
Some match-up are not good, and 1+ armore Empire is one of these, IMO.

You can try to hold-up the Light council with ripperdactyles. You can get the cannon with chameleons.
A Metal Slaan would be very useful indeed. Try to block his magic and make points denial with skinks to the demis. With the light council and heliobolis, he'll spam Banishment twice a round. That's nasty.