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8th Ed. Lizardmen Hammer and Anvil Tactics

Interesting, people I was under the impression that we didn't have anvils or hammers either. However I remembered that once our salamanders burn things to up, the unit should be weak enough to be hit an stood against by our saurus units.

I'm thinking blocks of 24 6 wide 4 deep.
 
I'll toss in my two cents about hammer/anvil units.

Lore of Life, Lore of Light, and Lore of Shadows ALL make Saurus Warriors shine.

Concerned about low initiative? Why you would be with an anvil is beyond me but if you truly detest striking last then play a different army.... I mean take Lore of Light. The REAL benefit this brings to the table is bumping our scaly brothers up to WS 10.. most things now rolling 5+ to hit makes for a tasty start for promotion into anvil status.. though this is actually my least favorite answer.. it is highly dependent upon one spell remaining on the field.

Lore of Life turns our fighting lines into juggernauts. Saurus suddenly boasting T 8 means 95% of the game are throwing 6's to wound. Ontop of this we have regrowth.. so even if something DOES nickel and dime some of these insanely tough models off the field we can bring them back. Couple that with shield of Thorns and you now have an anvil that is throwing 15 s 4 attacks up front, and 2d6 strength 6 attacks at EVERY unit in base contact at the end of EVERY magic phase. Lasting power, reasonable fighting prowess, and so many spells to deal with that the enemy will bogged down with A) preventing several amazing spells from hitting the field, and B) throwing their own power dice into dispelling to just have a prayer of taking down our forces. Magic dependant? Yes, but Focused Rumination means most of these spells only require ONE power die from our pool to cast/recast successfully.

Lore of Shadows is almost the opposite of Lore of Life as it turns our enemies into mush. The ability to, with various spells, reduce the following by d3: WS, BS, I, M, S, T. Ontop of this a spell that swaps out S for L when rolling to wound? Yeah, L of 8 means wounding on 2+ for a huge percentage of the warhammer world.

We have one of the most potent spell casters in the game.. the Slann packs one hell of a punch and is the backbone of any good Lizardmen army. Saurus warriors are one of the top contenders for stat lines vs. cost of any army. Bump them up with magic and they stand toe to toe with models 3-4x their cost.
 
Oh, forgot to add about hammers..

Good: Skrox
Better: CoC
Best: Stegadon

In low points Skrox will work just fine but anything past 1500 they are lackluster.
 
If you're strapped for points, four Krox work out as slightly cheaper then a steg and still behave fairly well. I'd agree that this is best in low points games. Though depending what you're after, more wounds and more attacks could serve you better. They're also not as big a draw for missile fire. Most people I know of are uncommonly terrified of a Steg lumbering around. That's why I like putting two down beside eachother :D
 
I just recently finished a tournament and I found out blocks lack alot of luster unless you can support them with magic.

Saurus get absolutely butchered by elite troops or troops with GW's.

Any useful size block of infantry we have weighs in at 300 points.
25 Saurus + FC or 24 Skinks 3Krox + FC

Each of my three games felt like it came down to the round the two battle lines clashed, did I get buff/debuffing spells off. If he could dispel I lost the game, if he didn't I won.
 
It's true lately i go for heavy battle support magic as opposed to direct damage magic, i've had moderate success with iceshard spam.
 
I am inclined to agree that the slann is key to whatever list you want to run. I think Saurus are good core troops as they can with the right spells be both an anvil and a hammer. Not that you should plan to get the right spells off as the winds a re fickle, but it only takes one good spell from a myriad of different lores and they are off and running.

Personally I don't bother with anvils, run 3 stegs together and smash aside everything in a glorious charge of doom!
 
I have found that a block of temple guard are way better than a block of saurus for the anvil. Temple guard get +1 ws, +1 str,or 3+AS, 6+Parry, Otherwise with the +1Str they only have a 4+AS and a 6+parry. +1 Initiative. With the lore of life they have the possibility of having a 4+ WS on top of that with a toughness of 8. I mean come on take a block of 30 with a slann and they are not going anywhere. Use a unit of 16skinks and 2 kroxs for the flank of a unit that locks in and they are annihilated. For only 5 extra points the temple guard are hands down the way to go.
 
not this again... TG can not use their shields in combat in 8th edition. see page 89 in the BRB.
 
Temple Guards have to use their Halbreds in combat and therefore don't get a 6+Parry save.
 
Really because the rules clearly state that you can use either the Halberd +1 STR OR the hand wep and shield 3+ AS and 6+ Parry. That is why in my post i stated OR between the two. The choice of deciding if you want an extra str at +5 total or an extra AS and Parry is fantastic. You do not HAVE to use the Halberd and it is a choice at the beginning of close combat.
 
pg. 89 of the BSB

"If a model carries a special close combat weapon, he must fight with it in the Close Combat phase - he cannot elect to wield his hand weapon instead."

It literally, flat out, says you cannot swap.. you MUST use the special weapon, in this case halberds.
 
Well that's crap, whats the point of him having a shield then? that is just a waste of time. Also, here is another question off the beaten path. How come people love the Ancient Stegadon with the Engine of the Gods? Wouldn't that just get taken out by artillery on the first turn? That has happened to me every time. How could i make it stick around? And are the benefits worth it for the point value?
 
A; it's a hold over form 7th edition (we still have a 7th edition army book)

B; shields still work when not in combst, like against arrows or spells.
 
The shield can still be used against ranged attacks! So, not a total loss.

The EOTG is very powerful. It is a cannonball (warmachine) magnet though. If you get the first turn, there are several things that you can do:

Move chameleons up to shoot the cannon
fly terradons up to shoot the cannon
magic the cannon
hex the cannon (iceshard blizzard, net of amytok, Pha's protection on your unit(s))
The Engine gives you the ability to use a 5+ ward vs shooting originating from greater than 12 inches. This gives protection in a bubble of 12 inches around the Engine.

Those things will help. If you get the first turn. Otherwise, you just have to cross your fingers and hope. Another way would be to take several stegadons and make your opponent chose which to shoot at.

The EOTG is worth its points. I would also say that a Skink Chief on a stegadon (with the warspear) is absolutely amazing against HE.
 
I ran an EOTG last week in a tourney and yeah getting first turn is huge. To the point that I dropped my chamo skinks so I would have the best chance at the +1.

Still I played vs chaos with hellcannons, empire and ogres with a cannon. So in 2/3 game he didn't make it to the end.
 
I wish they would FAQ the scouts deployment. Scouts go down after characters, so they are outside standard deployment. You should still get the +1 when you have scouts. I have never had anyone argue that they count towards the +1. It is sad that some people would make such that such a big deal.
 
about the scouts, in the deployment rules (p 142), it says that characters are deployed last. hence it is quite heavily inferred that when using alternating deployment, the deployment ends right after characters are put down. since scouts are put don after that, they should not count towards who gets the first turn. i agree it should be FAQed, but the "scouts dont count" side has a pretty good argument imo.
 
Daneish said:
I am inclined to agree that the slann is key to whatever list you want to run.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree here. I have been running a double old blood list with 2 skink priests and i have had enough success with the skink priests to not warrant a slann. Lore of heavens is fine for making the blocks stick around as re-roll 1's for us and 6's for them can have a huge effect (also iceshard). That and just say i'm casting comet and you watch yout opponent pick up at least 4 dd and then you cast whatever you want.
 
Arli said:
Those things will help. If you get the first turn. Otherwise, you just have to cross your fingers and hope. Another way would be to take several stegadons and make your opponent chose which to shoot at.
Click to expand...

Even if you don't get the first turn, people have shown statistics to up your Steg's chances of survival a bit by deploying it sideways. This way it has smaller footprint towards the cannon and chances the cannonball bounces over are a bit better. Also, as a monster the Steg can just pivot for free on it's first turn. This tactic of course doesn't really help if the war machines use templates.
 
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