8th Ed. Lizardmen End Times Rumor from Warseer

[Mr Phat]

Lvl 1-2 : Skink Priests

Lvl 2-3 : High Skink Priest with Palanquin option

Lvl 4 : Relic Priests (your regular lvl 4 caster

Lvl 5 : The remaining Live and kicking,
fully awakened,
transcended
fueled by vengeance
Buddha-frog-spawn of the ancient gods,
who can burst your hordes with a sentence!
... Slann



Ladies and gents!

Consider the above froggin called!

 

[Ersh]

To be honest, I can kinda get behind the reason for doing it, though I think it's a stupid choice.

Slanns have been... difficult to balance. They are tough as nails, have inherent ward saves, and a whole slew of disciplines specifically designed to make them better casters. Their 8th edition rules are far weaker than their, frankly, overpowered rules back in 7th. They did a fairly good explanation for why they have grown weaker, but it only gets them so far - GW doesn't seem to like how Slanns currently are, being these super powerful, and difficult to kill, wizards. One could just say "Nerf them more, then", or whatever, but in all honesty, would you prefer:
1. Slanns getting removed
2. Slanns getting nerfed to the point of being literally just a standard level 4 wizard, with no ward save, T3, etc.

Sorry, but... Stop that bullshit.

1st - look at ANY championship list. How many lizardmen players there? Any any LM winners? None. Face the fact that there are some powerful armies in WH - Chaos, HE , DE, empire. 90% of victories in any championships are between them.
So, when u say about "slanns was too good " - it's just a lie. LM is one of the less powerful army in FB.

2nd - fluff of this Lustria devastation is just awful. Skavens was building something in secret and for hundreds of years? Skavens? Wow, they are pure chaotic, unpredictable and betrayal each other race. They can't do anything for a long time. So this Lustria devastation is just a "okay, let's kill Lizardmen race, and we don't want to think, and we don't care ".

So, in fact - GW simply removed LM in most crude way. And all that "I feel fine, I feel happy " on this forum looks pathetic to be honest.

 

[Rettile]

hey mate, calm down. Many of us, me in primis, fear a lizard departure and/or (too) big changes in our army. But all these theories are built on rumours and speculations, so while some of us are quite negative about these change, others try to be optimistic. I don't thinks THIS is the problem, so please don't treat us as punching balls: we all understand your frustration.

And silver was talking about 7° edition slann, which was quite powerful (even if i think he wasn't op at all, just cupped hands and number 6 spells were the problem)

I'm with you on the ET fluff btw

 

[Skinquisitor]

Lol, u must be joking with lizardmen being a weak army, right? Just 2 weeks ago, I won a tournament with lizzies... with this book, I never ended worse then3rd... btw i preferred the 7th ed double slann skink cloud army Maybe you see ony casuals, i got another liz player n our community, and he does also great at tournaments, he plays a passive-defensive stylish game.

 

[Andrinor]

To be honest, I can kinda get behind the reason for doing it, though I think it's a stupid choice.

Slanns have been... difficult to balance. They are tough as nails, have inherent ward saves, and a whole slew of disciplines specifically designed to make them better casters. Their 8th edition rules are far weaker than their, frankly, overpowered rules back in 7th. They did a fairly good explanation for why they have grown weaker, but it only gets them so far - GW doesn't seem to like how Slanns currently are, being these super powerful, and difficult to kill, wizards. One could just say "Nerf them more, then", or whatever, but in all honesty, would you prefer:
1. Slanns getting removed
2. Slanns getting nerfed to the point of being literally just a standard level 4 wizard, with no ward save, T3, etc.

Sorry, but... Stop that bullshit.

1st - look at ANY championship list. How many lizardmen players there? Any any LM winners? None. Face the fact that there are some powerful armies in WH - Chaos, HE , DE, empire. 90% of victories in any championships are between them.
So, when u say about "slanns was too good " - it's just a lie. LM is one of the less powerful army in FB.

2nd - fluff of this Lustria devastation is just awful. Skavens was building something in secret and for hundreds of years? Skavens? Wow, they are pure chaotic, unpredictable and betrayal each other race. They can't do anything for a long time. So this Lustria devastation is just a "okay, let's kill Lizardmen race, and we don't want to think, and we don't care ".

So, in fact - GW simply removed LM in most crude way. And all that "I feel fine, I feel happy " on this forum looks pathetic to be honest.

First off, everybody on this forum is entitled to their own opinion without that opinion being called "pathetic" or "bullshit". Lustria Online is one of the better Warhammer forums out there because it's users, for the most part, treat each other with courtesy and respect. Please make an effort to not turn this forum into the kind of place where having an against the grain opinion gets you derided by other members.

To address your point on the fluff: I tend to agree. The idea that the Skaven could do something like that right under the everyone's noses and the Slann couldn't do something to stop it is very suspect. Hopefully in the full fluff book it is better explained than that. Let's keep in mind we are just going off of a bullet point rumor recap and we don't have the full story yet.

It is very easy to get caught up with the doom and gloom that the army is going down. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist but it seems like bad business sense to do such a thing. Why put out all of these new models and books just to kill the line entirely? Why alienate so much of your customer base? I'm sure some of the rumors that have come out about 9th will come to pass but I simply can't believe all of them.

 

[Mr Phat]

So, in fact - GW simply removed LM in most crude way. And all that "I feel fine, I feel happy " on this forum looks pathetic to be honest.

You are not entitled to judge what is, and what is not pathetic, no matter how "honest" you feel in your expression.
What you are entitled to however is your opinion on the matter, which might or might not be shared with a large percentage of lizardmen players.

In either case: this forum is a friendly one, if you dont like it you wont have a hard time finding a more hostile environment.

-

That aside, the recent fluff leak puts it all in perspective:

9th is going to be "different bubbles of reality"
Kroak just send tons of lustria flying into bubbles in the void.

That correlates.

Also, if Lizardmen were to be killed of, what is the point for GW to introduce a whole new generation of Kroaks, if not to make new rules for Generic Slann mummies?

This shines to me as a "We have recognized that our Special Character sculpts sell better if they have generic use also" epiphany has finally reached GW.

This new angle changes EVERYTHING.

Other races have suffered equal destruction: Naggaroth, ulthuan, the empire, khemri...all are devastated and forced into new surroundings.

As far as I am concerned, we are actually better of as lizardmen ships GOT AWAY and the fragments of lustria in the void IS SAFE.

- I dont say "Lizardmen are 100% certain to re-appear in 9th".
I just say that it looks FAR brighter now than a couple of days ago.

 

[Ersh]

Lol, u must be joking with lizardmen being a weak army, right? Just 2 weeks ago, I won a tournament with lizzies... with this book, I never ended worse then3rd... btw i preferred the 7th ed double slann skink cloud army Maybe you see ony casuals, i got another liz player n our community, and he does also great at tournaments, he plays a passive-defensive stylish game.

What was the size of this tournament? Local club?
Simply look at ETC lists or tournament of the same size and grade. Face the truth - lizardmen is not a top grade army at FB.

I know that I was rude in previous post, but please stop lie to yourself - incoming changes will hurt us or even discard our army from major future championships.

P.S. I really don't want to blame someone here. Sorry.

 

[n810]

Well ECT tournaments are a creature of their own
and does not reflect standard Warhammer tournaments at all.

 

[Sebbs]

[Other text]

- I dont say "Lizardmen are 100% certain to re-appear in 9th".
I just say that it looks FAR brighter now than a couple of days ago.

I agree, things are looking up!

And consider this: if/when LM returns, we even get to keep part of our precious jungle. So in some sense we're actually better off than for example high elves, that lost their home world altogether.

 

[Mr Phat]

ETC is battleline only, which is a major factor in list building.

Thats not saying that we cant be competetive there also.
A Cold one bus is REALLY not something you should neglect, sadly that has become impossible with the newest changes.

 

[Mr Phat]

And consider this: if/when LM returns, we even get to keep part of our precious jungle. So in some sense we're actually better off than for example high elves, that lost their home world altogether.

I did consider it!
And im a little ashamed to admit it, but the geek in me felt massive relief and joy by the thought
of NOT having to leave loved Lustria.

Kinda like when one of your favorite characters in a book supposedly dies, but then reappears live and well.

 

[Pinktaco]

Why do people fear that we no longer exist? 9th edition = bubble hammer. Lizzies send off into a bubble. Lizzies = part of bubble hammer.

Was the justification a bit odd (skaven building stuff in secret)? Yes, but let's be honest. If the rest of the world will be torn appart some weird sh1t is about to go down at any rate. We just went first and there's AFAIK one book left.

So what now? Personally I don't think we'll lose our slanns. They're still there. The rules care not if there are only a few left. If they're there they're there're and will probably continue as usual. I don't see them suddenly getting better (read higher magic lvl).

Fluff-wise though it's quite clear they'll now have to go their own ways.

THAT'S GOOD NEWS. Why? Because they're no longer bound to the ways of the old ones. Maybe they'll be more proactive in 9th edition which will allow for more drastic measures to survive in the new "world". GW now have the opportunity to be more creative with out race (which obviously shouldn't have been a problem to begin with, but still...).

Personally I'm much more at ease now. We know bubble hammer is likely happening, lizzies just went first.Others will likely come. If not then FU GW.

 

[Ersh]

ETC is battleline only, which is a major factor in list building.

Thats not saying that we cant be competetive there also.
A Cold one bus is REALLY not something you should neglect, sadly that has become impossible with the newest changes.

As I said - please name any championship of the same grade and quantity of people.

 

[Mr Phat]

As I said - please name any championship of the same grade and quantity of people.

Hands down I cant back it up with a source as I dont follow the international tourney scene, but I seem to remember lizardmen scoring pretty high under swedish comp.

also, that Lizardmen dosent work in etc is simply not true.
My mates who went to the championship still speaks of a ripperdactyl list that ...well...ripped everything apart.

That was the latest championship.
Give me some time, I have it on my computer somwhere.

 

[LawGnome]

My biggest issue isn't the destruction of Lustria by some farsighted skaven superweapon, or the death of most of our characters, or the fact that lizards have really done nothing for the entire end times story.

Honestly, all of those (with the exception of the superweapon, if the rumors of them working on it for centuries is true. It's like Mass Effect 3 all over again) work with the fluff given. Lizards are isolationist. They don't really interact with the rest of the world (not counting things like rearranging mountains and crushing dwarves. Oops). Instead, the world comes and interacts with them. We fight against chaos, and were instrumental in things like the great cyclone. But all of the major things that lizards have done were in the past.

The lizards deciding that the plan has failed, lets get out of here makes perfect sense. The lizards not playing much of a part in the rest of the books makes sense. We don't really have much in the way of ambition, since until the exodus there was no real change in what the lizards were doing since the polar gates exploded.

And with it being the end times, it makes sense that a lot of important people will die all over the place.


I'm fine with all of that. I don't think we are getting squatted, I don't think that we are getting written out, and I don't think that we will be in that bad of a spot once 9th ed comes around. They wouldn't have put out all of those new models and new book for us last year if they didn't want to keep the line around.

My main complaint is that with how the story has been going, we don't get new stuff. Elves get super Alarielle, empire gets super Karl, we get....a crappy formation that no one is going to use. Yay?

I want new toys!

 

[Mr Phat]

out of 31 teams, 8 had a lizardmen player.

and here you go:

POLAND
Stanislaw "Crusader" Scheiner, Lizardmen


Slann Mage-Priest: General, BSB, Lvl 4, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone, Wandering Deliberations,
Channeling Staff, Standard of Discipline

Skink Priest: Lvl 1, Heaven, Dispel Scroll

Skink Chief on Terradon: light armour, lustrian javelin, enchanted shield, dragonbane gem

Skink Chief on Terradon: light armour, shield, dragon helm

2x 1 Skink Chief on Terradon: light armour, lustrian javelin, shield,

Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One: Light Armour, Sword of Might, Charmed Shield, Dawnstone

10 Skink Skirmishers: champion, blowpipe,

3x 10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin, shield,

2x 25 Skink Cohort: FCG,

5 Ripperdactyl Riders:

3 Ripperdactyl Riders: champion,

3 Ripperdactyl Riders:

3x 3 Terradon Riders: Fireleech Bolas,

Total: 2400

 

[Ersh]

out of 31 teams, 8 had a lizardmen player.

and here you go:

POLAND
Stanislaw "Crusader" Scheiner, Lizardmen

As far as I know poland got 2nd place. Not bad at all. How many victories got that player?
Top player of tournament was empire player, as far as I know.

 

[Trociu]

Chunks of Lustria send into the void? That means spawn pools won't be lost, and probably monsters like Carnosaur will live too! That means... no new models.
I'm not kidding - if we won't be scrapped then it can also mean that armies won't be changed so much as it was said. Or Lizards become new Bretonnia.

 

[Mr Phat]

Chunks of Lustria send into the void? That means spawn pools won't be lost, and probably monsters like Carnosaur will live too! That means... no new models.
I'm not kidding - if we won't be scrapped then it can also mean that armies won't be changed so much as it was said. Or Lizards become new Bretonnia.

Or the void affects the spawning pools.
Or the dinosaurs evolve due to the warpstone shower.
Or the entire lizardmen society/infrastructure will change creating new castes of warriors.
Or lizardmen discover how to alter genes from the technology they are no longer forbidden to handle.


So many positive guesses and you choose to go for "Bretonnia II"

 

[Rettile]

So, now lizards are in bubbles with their spawning pools. these bubbles would probably be the thing that is most similar to the pre-chaos world... i know it will never happen, but it would be epic: imagine if after the end times some alive old ones decide to come back. I'd love it