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8th Ed. Lizardmen Battalion Box, What Next?

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Jungle Swarm

Ru-Ziel

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Ok, so I recently decided to actually play WHFB instead of faffing about painting random miniatures so I have decided to build a Lizardmen army to keep me occupied over the coming summer holidays.

So I went out and bought a skink chief blister (the one with both the cloak of feathers and chief with blowpipe) just to see how I go painting them up and I fell in love. Lizardmen are much more fun to paint than the endless browns that I had tried to pain for the Beastmen.

So my first two models turned out really good and I was happy with the results so in my arrogance and excitement I went out and bought the Lizardmen Battalion box set. I figures that this would give me a good starting out army and I could just build around that. Now upon reading the army book and the new rules it seems that with my two skink chiefs and the battalion I do not have a valid army.

In the old rules I think it would have worked out ok, with the restriction put on number of units and not points percentages, but with the 8th edition rules I'm a little stuck. So what should I do? I'm a bit of a noob to the actual playing of the game so correct me if I'm wrong, but be nice. I'm thinking anoter box of skinks would tip the scale, keeping them as skirmishers rather than rank and file.

Advice?
 
You'll be happy to learn that the guy with the cloak of feathers is actually a skink priest so that's not altogether too bad :P

Ideally you'll want a Slann to lead your army but for smaller points games a saurus old blood/scar vet will do just fine. You could also make your skink priest the general. For a legal army all you need is a general, 25%+ of core with 3 or more units which should be doable with what you have.

The battalion gives you a nice start, 20 saurus with full command, 12 skinks (which I'd model as blowpipe skirmishers), 10 temple guard which are a bit small to field as a unit on their own and probably overcosted without a slann to put with them, and 8 cold one cavalry which people have mixed views on.

You should be able to create a decent low points army from what you have but I'd recommend getting an old blood/scar vet model and probably a slann. If you get a slann you'll probably want another 10 temple guard to round out that unit. I bought 2 battalions personally which worked out nicely. I do have way more cold ones that I need though so it's up to you if you'll find a use for the contents of a second battalion.

One further point: get as many salamanders as you can find. Those guys are pure awesome.
 
Yeah, would only be aiming for about a 1,500 point army at this stage. Keep it simple to start off.

Is the Slann a viable option at this size army? I would have thought you would need at least 2000 points to field one.

Way ahead of you with the Skinks, Although I am having a bit of a hard time ranking them up with the blowpipe and hand weapon. Is that a common problem or am I not assembling them right?
 
Blowpipe skinks are skirmishers (look up the 'skirmishers' special rule). You don't need to rank them up, they sit in a loose formation with about 1 inch between each model. The only time you rank them up is when they get into close combat in which case they'll die pretty quickly anyhow.

You can fit a slann in at 1500. He won't be fully kitted out but that won't matter all that much because a slann (or indeed most level 4 wizards) at 1500 points is just brutal for your opponent.

Anything upwards of 1500 points the slann becomes an auto include which is annoying as the old blood on carnosaur model is really cool. You can play without a slann but don't be surprised if you get slaughtered by your opponent's magic.
 
That's what i thought about the skirmishers, they only need to rank up when they come into contact with an enemy. Do they not have that problem when they have hand weapons and shields? Like in a Kroxigor mix unit?

Also, another stupid question, I don't suppose Skink heroes can join skirmish units? I don't have the main rulebook to go by, only the army book.

Cheers for helping out a noob.
 
If you look in the lizardman army book you'll see two separate entries for skinks in the core section. The cheaper points option are the normal troops with javelin and shield that can optionally include kroxigors which rank up as normal and the other entry is the skirmisher skinks which cost more points and can't have kroxigors.

Characters on foot (like your skink chief) are allowed to join skirmisher units. They gain the skirmisher rule temporarily while they are a part of that unit.
 
Ah ha. So it is. You are a font of knowledge my friend.
 
Not much I can add to what's been said, what you want to buy next really comes done to how you like to play, although I second the Salamanders, they are awesome.

As for ranking up Lizardmen, between all the tails, spears and etc that stick out they can be a huge @#$% to rank up if you aren't careful, so I don't bother being careful and just leave a tiny space between ranks. The people I play with are good about it.
 
Good. I'm glad I'm not the only one having problems ranking up.

I'm only new to Lizardmen but it's not hard to see the preference for Salamanders. Are Razordons so bad? I would have thought (just going off the rulebook and no actual game-play experience) that the Razordon would be the better option. Not being able to make a Stand and Shoot reaction with the Salamanders is a downfall on my part, seeing as the Razordon get two artillery dice to play with in the same situation. Not to mention that they are one in front when it comes to the strength of their attacks.
 
I don't think Razordons are terrible, but they aren't an offensive artillery piece the way Salies can be. For one thing, you don't get that many shots (sure it's awesome when you roll a 10, but you'll roll 2's as well) and their terrible range combined with the fact that we already have a LOT of options for dealing out Strength 4 hits... they just don't do anything that special.

The Salies can easily generate as many hits (or a LOT more if you are lucky, rarely much less) and although they are only Strength 3 what is amazing about them is the combination of -3 to Armour Saves (so they'll kill a lot more) and more importantly that automatic panic test on even a single unsaved Wound. If you can get that template across multiple units... it can be very devastating.

What I find the Razordons great for is mobile defence, stick them in front of a unit you don't want charged or outflanked and force the enemy to either have to move around them (and get shoot up while they do it) or charge them and take the double artillery rolls.
 
The main issue with razordons is that they compete for points with salamanders in the same slot. In almost all cases a salamander is the better option.

Razordons need to roll to hit and potentially might not get that many shots off (they get 2-10 unless charged and none if they misfire - if using two dice for being charged they get two chances to misfire meaning potentially no shots and a lot of dead handlers) where as a well placed template from a salamander can often toast 75% of a decent sized unit.

Salamanders are skirmishers meaning they can march their full 12 inches and fire making it easy to flank and get in position, razordons on the other hand specifically say in their rules that you can't march and fire limiting them to 6 inch moves if you want to shoot as well. They might be good as a roadblock for flank protection but salamanders are just better for the points.
 
It should also be mentioned that a salamander cannot stand and shoot. You should almost always flee with them. On the plus side, they are warbeasts which allows them swiftstride.
 
This seems to be a point of contention among Lizardmen players. They surely have their pros and cons. Thematically I think I would swing on the side of the Razordons. Big excitable pin cushions that they are.
 
Don't get my previous post as a bad thing. I would take salamanders before razordons in most situations. They amount of damage that they dish out is just too good to pass up. The only instance where I would consider a razordon was when I face an army that is immune to psychology. If they are not forced to test, it may not be worth using. Even then, they still take out huge numbers of models in a horde formation.
 
Syltaryn said:
Blowpipe skinks are skirmishers (look up the 'skirmishers' special rule). You don't need to rank them up, they sit in a loose formation with about 1 inch between each model. The only time you rank them up is when they get into close combat in which case they'll die pretty quickly anyhow.

You can fit a slann in at 1500. He won't be fully kitted out but that won't matter all that much because a slann (or indeed most level 4 wizards) at 1500 points is just brutal for your opponent.

Anything upwards of 1500 points the slann becomes an auto include which is annoying as the old blood on carnosaur model is really cool. You can play without a slann but don't be surprised if you get slaughtered by your opponent's magic.
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Just a quick 2 cents on this - in my opinion it is well worth the points and better overall to are your skirmishing skinks with javelins, as they can march and shoot without penalty. With low BS, you will almost never get to double tap your skinks with blowpipes, and when you need to hit on 7's you do not benefit from the jungle poisons rules.

Also, when skirmishing, models should be roughly 1/2" apart, not 1".

Personally, I play up to 2000 points without a Slann. 2 level 2 skinks with plaque of topek, diadem of power and channeling staff is quite adequate, and it leaves me points for stegadons, terradons and Cold One cavalry, or even a unit of Temple Guard with a magic banner that I can use as an elite combat unit. Most opponents will not know how to deal with all that - they will be expecting a Slann and find themselves outnumbered and outflanked (and subsequently outplayed). 2 Sallies is a must in any such game. Agree with all the points raised about razordons (at this point I've never bothered with taking one). At or over 2000, I think you are forced to take one to be competitive.

Oh, and since no one has mentioned it yet, get a unit of Chameleons at some point. Those guys can in fact make the blowpipe deadly.
 
T`hinker`er said:
Oh, and since no one has mentioned it yet, get a unit of Chameleons at some point. Those guys can in fact make the blowpipe deadly.
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I use my chameleons like they are skirmishing skinks. Of course, that is after they go after their preferred targets (i.e. war machines, lone mages, giants...). In a 2500 point game, I will make sure to include at least 2 units of 7 chameleons. 3 units of 7 work well at that level as well.
 
I am working on having 2 units of 7 painted. Not sure if I will ever do a 3rd unit, when I can get 3 terradons for the same price and increase my tactical options and overall army flexibility.
 
Salamanders are defintely the preferred option. I have found razordons to be useful against ogres. Average ogre is tough 4 with a 5+ armor save. Razordons chew through them pretty handily with their str 4 shots. Also letting the ogres charge the razordons usually ends up pretty funny from the LM point of view. And the salamander template loses some bang because of the base size and model count of most ogre units. I pick salamanders against pretty much everything else though.

Chameleons or terradons is the eternal battle. It all depends on the opponent. If you cant scout your chamo's behind enemy lines because they have deploye across the whole battlefield terradons are a better choice. The vanguard will pretty much guarantee they get to the war wachine on the first turn.

If you can get the chamos behind enemy lines with their scout deployment 7 of those buggers will absolutely harass and destroy everything they shoot at. In the long run chamo's can put out more shot but terradons are a little more flexible to use thanks to the fly move. I personally have been running two units of 7 chamo's and no terradons lately. Im going to have to try and incorporate the terradons back in they were my favorite unit last edition.
 
What do people think about the Drop Rocks special rule? Does that come into play a lot?
 
I love it, it's great for softening up a war machine, or doing some nice dents in a unit you fly over on the way to a war machine.

It's also great for causing headaches in your opponents flanking units, or, if he has Scouts in places you don't want him it's good at killing them. In fact if I was playing a Lizards vs Lizards battle I'd save my Rocks for his Chameleons, since it ignores the To Hit roll it'll bypass their chief defence!
 
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