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7th Ed. Lizardmen 2000 pts. Vs. Dwarfs

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Skink

Dreq-Kai

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Alright, here's my list;

Saurus Oldblood
Quetzl -
Sotek -
Bane Head -
Burning Blade -
Maiming Shield -
Aura of Quetzl -
Light Armor -

Total- 283

Purpose of Unit- To kill the Dwarf Lord, and rip apart his accompanying unit [Likely Longbeards]. Will be joined by a unit of Saurus.

Scar-Vet on Cold One
Itzl-
Quetzl-
Sotek-
Lgt Armor/Shield-
Cold One-
Glyph Neckace-
Halberd-

Total- 186

Purpose of Unit- To join with the Cold Ones unit to hopefully destroy the Thunderers unit and threaten the armies flank.

Skink Chief
Armor/Shielf-
Sotek-
Cloak of Feathers-
Sword of Might-

Total- 131

Purpose of Unit- War Machine Hunting


Skink Chief
Armor-
Sotek-
Jaguar Charm-
Addition Hand Weapon-

Total- 103

Purpose of Unit- War Machine Hunting

Stegadon -235

Purpose- To crash into one side of the army and move inwards.

Kroxigors (3) -174

Purpose- To crash into one side of the army and move inwards. Support Stegadon in this.

Saurus Cavalry (7) w/ Stan + Champ. Huanchis Totem - 325

Purpose- To march ahead, use the totem, and slaughter the Thunderers Unit. Then Proceed inwards. Deployed on opposite side as Steg and Krox'. Supported by Scar-Vet.

30 Skinks - Screening. But do not know units which to screen.

16 Saurus w/ Standard and Champion - 216

Purpose- March ahead and smash remaining Blocks while Flankers assist. Joined by Oldblood. Move to Dwarf Lords Unit.

12 Saurus w/ Stan and Champ - 144

Purpose- Purpose- March ahead and smash remaining Blocks while Flankers assist.


What my opponent generally takes;

16 Warriors
16 Warriors
Unit of Miners
Ten Slayers
16 Thunderers
16 Longbeards

Cannon
Flame Cannon
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

Occasionaly Throws in a Gyrocopter is he feels like it.

Opponents skills/tricks;

He is very good at guessing, my guess for this is he is good at math, and keeps track of specific movements. Also, I suspect he measures the tiles of the floor where we play. He occasionally "accidentally" overshoots at skinks to hit more valuable units behind.

Any tips or advice?
 
Hi, please remember to read the forum rules about posting points for individual upgrades. Thanks :)
 
No problems mate, welcome to the site.

As for the list, have you thought about dividing your unit of skinks into 3 blocks of 10. This gives you more options with them, however they will panic more easily under fire. As always it's swings and roundabouts. Personally I send my skinks out to die so I'm not bothered if they're gone by the end of the battle ^_^
 
First, the illegality. Your Scar-Vet has three Sacred Spawnings. He's only able to have two. Your Old Blood (who only has two) can have up to three.

Secondly for your SW block, remember that the frontage of 5 is needed for counting your rank bonus so moving to a unit of 14 with the Old Blood stuffed in there gives you three ranks with your general up front.

And lastly, if it's possible, I'd try to give one of your skink chiefs the scouting ability just to get him into position that much faster. Starting the FSoD halfway down the board before he even makes his flying move can really get you set up to jump his lines and hit those machines on turn 1.
 
Oh, I usually do divide my skinks into units of ten, I generally just lump them into one amount when I make my lists.

Right, right, I'm not used to having my characters mounted. I dropped the Quetzl spawning, and gave the scouting ability to the FSoD.

Hmm, not a bad idea, I think I'll drop the two saurus, make a bit of tweaks somewhere, and buy another cavalry, sound good?

Does anyone know how likely/long it would be for my Chiefs to knock off the average artillery crew?
 
Firstly, I would suggest making the Jaguar Skink into a Jaguar Scar-Vet. The points increase is not substantial and he really increases the chances that he will be able to take out a war machine in one go (w/ a halberd he would hit on 3s and wound on 2s, a chief would be hitting on 4s and wounding on 3s), and even without magic protection a JSoD would be able to survive attacks back.

That said, skink chiefs, against the average crew (expecting an engineer but not a hero-level engineer) should take 2 turns to kill a crew assuming that they do not get clobbered with the return attacks. A unit of terridons generally is more effective than a FSOD (although are more $$ unfortunately).

As far as your heroes go, I would suggest dropping the maiming shield on the Oldblood and the Glyph necklace on the scar vet. The maiming shield does not benefit from the BBoC's armor modifier, so that attack will likely bounce off. Instead, the enchanted shield would give your Oldblood a 1+ save, and save you points that can be invested in a later point. The glyph necklace wont do you much good. With a look out sir save, your scar-vet should not be wasting 35 pts (3 more Saurus) on an overpriced insurance policy. With such a large unit around him, you're doing something wrong if he has to rely on a 5+ save.

Your Saurus units are not the right number unfortunately. In 7th edition, a unit must have a frontage of 5 to gain rank bonuses, so 4x4 wont do you any good. I would say use the points saved by dropping these two items and making other changes (should be about 60 pts all told) to get 5 Saurus to boost your units. A unit of 12 Saurus is just going to bounce off a Dwarf block, and a couple more bodies can soak up casualties until the cavalry arrive.
 
Ok, my updated list, I wanted to add in some Terradons, but I just couldn't fit them.

Oldblood - Quetzl, Sotek, Tzunki [I don't know a Dwarf Lords initiative, is this worthwhile?], Burning Blade of Chotec, Enchanted Shield, Light Armor, Bane Head. Total = 238

Scar-Veteran on Cold One - Itzl, Sotek, Cold One, Light Armor, Shield, Halberd. Total = 141

Jaguar Scar-Vet - Sotek, Quetzl, Light Armor, Shield, Halberd, Jaguar Charm. Total = 148

Flyin' Skink Chief - Light Armor, Shield, Sotek, Cloak of Feathers, Sword of Might, Scout. Total = 139

Stegadon - 235
3 Kroxigors - 174
14 Saurus w/ Standard and Champ - 192
15 Saurus w/ Standard and Champ - 204

40 [Total #, divided into squads of ten] Skinks w/ Blowpipes - 240

8 Saurus Cavalry w/ Standard Bearer, Champion, and Huanchi's Totem - 325.


This'll be the first time I'll be trying the Huanchi Totem, I hear its good though. Any advice on how to use it against Thunderers? Does this list look better?
 
Ok, first thoughts... If they're not already built, I'd suggest giving at least half of your skink units javelins and shields, primarily because the javelins don't give you a penalty to shoot after moving. Since I'd suspect at least half of the skink units will be screens, it makes sense to keep them moving and shooting whenever possible.

Second, while I can understand your wanting to strike earlier in the turn, the Halberd on the JSoD isn't as advisable as the great weapon. Your JSoD will probably be striking last against most armies anyway (dwarves being an exception to the rule for the most part). Of course, this doesn't apply when he gets the charge and with an 18 inch charge range that should be as often as possible, and with a strength score of 7, he can bash chariots to dust in one hit, and cut through almost everyone's armor without a second thought. On the Cold One I can see using the halberd, though I'd recommend the spear instead so you can keep the shield bonus and still get the +1 strength when you charge.

Next up, the Dwarf Lord's initiative is 4 (according to the reference list GW put out for them) so giving your Old Blood the Tzunki spawning will tie his initiative, not beat it. If you're ok with this then carry on, but if not then try something else.

And finally, not to be picky, but do you have an aversion to musicians? I see all of your units that took a champ and standard didn't take a musician. Aside from the rallying effect, they also can swing combat your way on a tie provided your opponent doesn't have one (brb: p. 81) , so if you're hitting his blocks with your saurus and tie in the first round, if he has a musician he'll be winning the combat. Plus, if you do lose the combat, he'll still stick around if you break and run, unlike your standard bearer, who drops the standard when you bolt. If you're ok with this, then carry on. I'm just letting you know the reason most people throw them in there.
 
I find it to be of more value to get a skink then buy a musician that may or may not even be of use, personally.

Could you explain not being able to use the shield as well as a Halberd? I'm afraid I'm not aware of that rule.
 
A halberd is a two handed weapon. You can only use shields in combat with one handed heapons. It does, however grant you the +1 (or +2 in the case of an enchanted shield) against ranged weapons w/a halberd.

The reason why you should take a mucisian is quite simple. Firstly, you want to improve your chances of rallying, because more-so than against any army you are going to have a good chance of getting away (whether it is fleeing from a charge or fleeing from a lost combat). A failed charge can draw out your opponents battle line, and depending on the points invested your Saurus units will probably bounce off his anvil unit (every dwarf player has one). Not only this, but when you consider that you are paying 6 points for a possible +1 CR, and a warbanner costs 25 pts, it is justifiable purely on a points basis.

Your arguement about rather having an additional skink also does not work in this situation. With a high armor save, the fact that they cannot be march-blocked, and high leadership, skinks are less effective against dwarfs than most other opponents.
 
I have a question about his War Machines, and which should be priorities. He takes;

Flame Cannon
Cannon
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

Generally Entrenches one, and gives one an Engineer.

Designated to take down these machines in my list are the JSoD and the FSoD$ [By the way, think I should drop him and get Terry's?]. Which should go after which?

P.S. Would the Giant Bow be able to specifically target a crewman of a machine, or would it still need to randomize between crew and machine. I don't know if it'd be a good idea to go after dwarf blocks with the bow, go after crew, or just start marching. Thoughts?
 
Oh SohCahToa got to the musician/skink thing already...oh well...:)
 
I will correct my list to include some musicians, but how about the warmachines?
 
Beyond the point that it will be most beneficial to charge whatever war machine has the master engineer with your JSOD (assuming of course, an unobstructed charge path), as you can challenge the engineer, how you react to the war machines is largely dependent on the unique deployments of the particular game and the particular choices made by the Dwarf player.
 
Just wanted to let you all know, I achieved a solid [at least] victory against my opponent. I may post a battle report If I feel like it.
 
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