8th Ed. Level 5 casters everywhere now!!!

[Xlanax_lot]

Hey so I was just thinking, Do u guys think we will be getting level 5 slanns and masdamundi? There seem to ve a lot of level 5s out there now (nagash, teclis, malekith, alariele) and I gound it fit that our casters would be too. What do u think?

 

[jayzerus]

Kroak and Mazdanundi both, that's my bet.

 

[Theassassinsayshi]

No. The reason why the characters you mentioned are level 5 casters is because they became the incarnate of a Wind of magic. Unless one of the Slann becomes one, I don't think they'll be level 5.

 

[Xlanax_lot]

No. The reason why the characters you mentioned are level 5 casters is because they became the incarnate of a Wind of magic. Unless one of the Slann becomes one, I don't think they'll be level 5.

I see ur point, teclis however is not an incarnete and he is also a lv 5

 

[SilverFaith]

So... The old Arkhan the Black was a level 5 caster, so he was also an incarnate...?

Level 5 doesn't seem to mean all that much fluff wise, and crunch-wise, it means even less. Now that everyone is loremaster by default, all level 5 means compared to level 4, is +1 to cast and dispel, which can be done on any level 4 with an arcane item.

 

[borkbork]

But the +1 arcane item takes away other options and for dispelling the +1 magic lvl is pretty big. (considering you only have to roll equal).

I think you will see a lot more people using lvl 1 spam.....and 6 dicing everything just to blow up.
I have allready written up an orc & gobbo list with loads of lvl 1's on chariots and wolves. Charge, six dice and hope to blow up.

 

[VampTeddy]

No. The reason why the characters you mentioned are level 5 casters is because they became the incarnate of a Wind of magic. Unless one of the Slann becomes one, I don't think they'll be level 5.

I'm sorry, but it seems to me (and i might just be confused), that SLanns were birthed from the very essence of magic my beings greater than anything any other creatures could ever fathom, live for eternities, are able to shift the continents and move mountains, shoot bolts of eldritch badassery (while other races just shoots bolts, it's the in the fluff, trust me (well it SHOULD be)), they were also taught by said beings of great badassery and in turn Kroak taught the elves who taught everyone else, and we all know about second hand sources and their credibility.

The fluff doesn't need to precisely state that the slann are incarnate's og the wind of magic, they were born of the stuff, slann are capable of so much more than any even slightly comparable mage in the fluff of the AB, sadly however, the tabletop doesn't completely mirror this, which, in the end is fine! SC's need to feel special, but to say that those casters are greater mages from a fluffwise perspective, is (to me) abhorrent, it is a sin against the old ones and a sin to our trust in the Slann and the Great plan.

Our toady overlords will lead us through to the gates of salvation, and smash aside all of the lesser races on the path to greates!

All hail the slann!

/Hail!

 

[Rettile]

the problem here is fluffwise slanns should be at least lv8, know unique catastrophic spells, be loremaster (everything but racial lores) and so on, but it would be game breaking. I feel like slanns with the old armybook were a good compromise between the background and the gaming table: they could cripple an enemy caster (like stated in the fluff), generate more power dices giving them magic supremacy (like it should be) and master a single lore after thousands of years of study, practice and instinct (they are uber-intelligent and incredibly old creatures made to be the best casters in the world, i think loremaster is a must). Ok, it was a problem always being able to 6 dice an uber spell and dodge the miscast with cupped hands, but remove cupped hands and it was quite tollerable, unless you were using life. Moreover, we all know slanns purpose was buffing our troops against enemy deathstars (and if they think making TG cost 14 pts instead of 16 could fix it, they must be quite stupid)

Anyway, i hope our slanns will get a buff when (if) the end times arrive for us. Even better if we get spawnings, a big flying monster and/or something else

 

[Slanputin]

the problem here is fluffwise slanns should be at least lv8, know unique catastrophic spells, be loremaster (everything but racial lores) and so on, but it would be game breaking.

Except, wasn't that more in reference to Slanns of earlier generations? The current Slanns are definitely powerful, even in their species' demise they rival Lvl.4 mages of other races, but the generic Slann don't have the world-rending geomantic capabilities of the previous generations. Mazdamundi, being of an earlier generation, could do with going up a level - with the influx of End Times magic, the Slann shaking off their lethargy, and the bumping up of non-incarnate casters to Lvl.5, I expect that to be changed ;p

I like the idea of Tehenhauin becoming the Incarnate of Beasts (with appropriate toughness increases xp ) If the Slann don't somehow manage to harness one of the wayward winds of magic released from the Vortex I'd be disappointed - that would definitely be a betrayal of their magical prowess.

 

[Theassassinsayshi]

So... The old Arkhan the Black was a level 5 caster, so he was also an incarnate...?

Level 5 doesn't seem to mean all that much fluff wise, and crunch-wise, it means even less. Now that everyone is loremaster by default, all level 5 means compared to level 4, is +1 to cast and dispel, which can be done on any level 4 with an arcane item.

You said it yourself, the OLD arkhan...
Please read the ET Khaine rule book, it contains the latest rules which correlates to the lore.

Also, to respond to the point about Teclis, no he's not level 5. He does not have the essence of a god in him, that's why he drew the wind of Hysh into his staff of Lileath instead of himself. Please read End Times Nagash, the end of End Times Glottkin and the end of End Times khaine to comprehend the fact that to be an incarnate of a Wind od magic you would have to have some sort of divinity in you. That also makes Tehenhauin a very likely candidate for the lore of Beasts, should he really have some sort of connection to Sotek

 

[SilverFaith]

Eh, Arkhan was a level 4 with a relic of Nagash, that made him a level 5. Same deal with teclis, who had an item that made him level 4+1. I suppose there might be a technical difference betweeen the two, but for all intents and purposes, they were flat-out level 5s.

Level 5 does not mean you are an incarnate, no matter how much GW tries to backpeddle on this subject. I laughed when I read Nagash' entry on how he was a level 5, and how that is "normally not possible", despite them having released several level 5 wizards prior to this.

It's like they think all their players are completely new to the game, and have never looked through the army books.

I am actually curious about why they didn't just make these uber wizards level 6. It would have made more sense to break the norm completely, and honestly, the bonus isn't all that great anyway, especially now the affected characters have all spells anyway. You'd just think they'd make them actually powerful on the tabletop, rather than just make them a normal level 4 with book of ashur.

 

[KingCheops]

I am actually curious about why they didn't just make these uber wizards level 6. It would have made more sense to break the norm completely, and honestly, the bonus isn't all that great anyway, especially now the affected characters have all spells anyway. You'd just think they'd make them actually powerful on the tabletop, rather than just make them a normal level 4 with book of ashur.

Uh with the ET:K rules every static bonus you can get to your casting value is far more valuable than it was before. Trickle casting is going to be much more prevalent so getting to add more points to each cast is immense.

 

[SilverFaith]

I am actually curious about why they didn't just make these uber wizards level 6. It would have made more sense to break the norm completely, and honestly, the bonus isn't all that great anyway, especially now the affected characters have all spells anyway. You'd just think they'd make them actually powerful on the tabletop, rather than just make them a normal level 4 with book of ashur.

Uh with the ET:K rules every static bonus you can get to your casting value is far more valuable than it was before. Trickle casting is going to be much more prevalent so getting to add more points to each cast is immense.

Doesn't change the fact that a level 5 ET wizard is just a level 4 wizard with book of ashur.

Hence why, if they wanted these guys to appear powerful, and not just a regular mage, they shold have made them level 6, putting them above anything other wizards can replicate by default.

And since they are supposed to be so powerful, being incarnates of the respective lores, one would think they'd be better than this. Considering they aren't necessarily loremaster, which guys like nagash isn't, you can actually make a character who has a better chance of casting their spells than these supposed "incarnates". It's pretty dumb in my opinion.

 

[Gringold]

I can't decide how much a wizard level is truly worth under this new system.

On the one hand, there are more casting and dispel attempts per magic phase, so the +1 bonus to cast and dispel appears more valuable as it has an effect on more rolls.

On the other hand, with every caster having access to their entire lore, an extra wizard level appears less valuable because it is no longer granting a wizard an extra spell.

 

[Ixt]

Seems like higher levels are far more valuable now given the randomness associated with the number of dice you may throw at a spell to cast or dispel. That +x, to me, appears huge now.

A level 2 is casting Iceshard Blizzard, and rolls a 1 for number of dice to throw. Ouch.

A level 4 does the same - not so bad.

I think that that sentiment will apply across the board (especially since the truly good 15+ spells can only be attempted once), but maybe I'm not yet experienced enough with this system.

 

[SilverFaith]

Seems like higher levels are far more valuable now given the randomness associated with the number of dice you may throw at a spell to cast or dispel. That +x, to me, appears huge now.

On one hand, I a agree, as does most everyone in my local group. Book of Ashur has become a stable on everyones primary wizard, to make them, effectively, level 5s. Since the new system doesn't add any other benefits but +lvl to cast, +1 to cast is now effectively +1 wizard level.

However, on the other hand, I've had entire games with a level 2 that got several spells through, and mmanaged to shut down tthe opposing wizards most important spells, desite the 3+ to cast difference. Because if the level 5 gets 3 dice, and succeeds in casting his 15+ spell, and I get 5 dice to dispel with, I can easily shut down his attempt without any real problems, if I have the dice of course.

The bonuses are more important because of the amount of spells cast, but the lower level wizards still have more power dice than the higher leveled one, and because he is limited in how many dice he has to dispel with, you still have a fair chance of getting through the spells that matter. It's more difficult, but not at all as difficult as it was during the old system, where a level 2 had just 2 spells.

 

[Hooligan]

I think the value of a lvl 4 vs a lvl 1 mostly has to do with how you interpret the rules. It seems that the new system doesn't address bound spells or dispelling with the army. I've heard the argument that since the initial to-cast and to-dispel d6 address only wizards that you can instead use as many dice as you want. 5 dicing a bound spell without having to roll an initial d6 is still terrifying for a lvl 4 to try and dispel. I haven't tried playing with this interpretation myself but if your opponent wants to play straight up RAW, that's a hard argument to dispute...

Also, determining what counts as a successful dispel factors in too. If you play where a dispel counts as a failed cast, then that +4 to dispel is great for shutting down a key spell, limiting your opponent's options and forcing him/her to focus on something else . If you play where you just have to reach the casting value then I don't feel the difference really matters... the available cast and dispel d6 could go for or against you, and you're opponent is just going to spam it again if you dispel it.

I plan on trying a fulcrum channel toad in a couple weeks. While the book is a lot more powerful for trickle casting, channeling 3 dice on a 3+ will give you an average of 2 more dice/phase. That could let you get in that one additional spell you want to squeeze out that phase (which I feel is kind of the point of the book anyways) and it's a cheaper build. What I like more is that it further closes the gap in the dispel phase, giving you an average of 11 dice to dispel with vs an average of 14 for the castor. As long as the to-dispel d6 don't go totally against you, I think this has more potential to limit or shut down an opponent's entire phase.