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8th Ed. Kroxigor Love?

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Clarkarias

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I don't see any lists out there with Special Kroxigor. Is there a reason people don't seem to take them?

I'm of the mindset that - in general - it's due to the fact that people want to spend more points on Monsters and that Saurus have more wounds and more attacks. Kroxigor are faster, strong, can stomp, can't be stomped and cause fear. The downsides of course being special and points cost.

I got the idea for a 2400 point army but want to hear opinions as to why people don't take kroxigor.
 
Two reasons. First historical inertia. Kroxigor weren't used much in the old book. Skroxigor used to be clearly better. Now Skroxigor and Kroxigor on are equal footing but we aren't used to it.

Second reason, the Kroxigor aren't new. The natural inclination with the new book is to try the new things first.

I plan to use Kroxigor extensively, but not immediately.
 
Yup, people are still playing with their new toys.

I think kroxigors and temple guard are going to be fantastic in the new book. Units of 3 krox make a great fast flanking unit, and 6 krox makes a hammer.
 
Krox are great, units of 3,4 and 6 are solid and can be a great tool in the chest. If you want a no saurus list (ie Southlands Style) then a block of 8 makes a good main combat block.
 
Yeah, kroxigors are probably better than we give them credit for. Last edition we always lamented that they lost their Strength 7 and that they weren't worth their points. Now we got Strength 7, reduced cost, and predatory fighter, so now they're a pretty good deal, they just take a little work to use properly since they strike last and are a touch fragile.
 
I'd like to see more of them. I want to try using a hammer of 8. Other then a giant horde of cheap infantry, I'm not sure what I'd worry about being across from that unit.
 
People love Ironguts - and for 7 points more we get +1 S, +1 AS, PF, and much better leadership (cold blooded) and the only thing we miss is Ogre Charge. Of course, Krox are special not core, but still that's a nasty block
 
Knight Errant said:
People love Ironguts - and for 7 points more we get +1 S, +1 AS, PF, and much better leadership (cold blooded) and the only thing we miss is Ogre Charge. Of course, Krox are special not core, but still that's a nasty block
Click to expand...

You touched on it a little, but there is actually a huge difference between Ironguts and Kroxigors and they can't really be compared.

I play Ogres, and Ironguts are great for a couple of reasons. First, they fill Core requirement. Second, Ironguts by themselves aren't that great. What's great is that they are part of a character delivery system. Usually I take 3 characters in the unit. Unfortunately Kroxigors can't do the same thing.

Ironguts typically operate in units of 12+, with Horde not being unusual.

Much better to compare Kroxigors to Maneaters (maneaters typically operate by themselves, and start at the same base price) as their function is more similar.

Vs Maneaters, Krox get +2 AS, better leadership, Predatory Fighter, and Great Weapons as base.

Maneaters get +1 WS, +2 I, +1 A (which is better than PF), Ogre Charge, tons of equipment options (extra hand weapon in the front, great weapon in the back? Or how about brace of pistols all around? MAGIC BANNER!), full command options plus two special rules for free (Stubborn and Swiftstride? Sniper and Poison? Scout and ITP?)

I'd say based on that comparison Kroxigors could have been made a bit better as they clearly get toasted by Maneaters. Not saying they are unusuable. I'm going to try them out.

And of course you can't really totally compare units isolated between two armies. You have to look at how they fit within the army as a whole.
 
Bear in mind that the Maneaters have to pay extra for all those weapon options, so while they are great, they'll end up costing quite a bit more than Krox. I think the closest comparison is actually to the Tomb Kings' Ushabti. Compared to that, the Kroxigor stacks up like so:

+1 M, -1 WS, +1 S, -2 I, -1 Ld, -Undead, -Animated Construct, +1 armor, +Aquatic, +Cold Blooded, +Predatory Fighter

I'd say the Kroxigor stacks up pretty favorably - that extra S and armor are a big deal, as is Predatory Fighter (to say nothing of M6 that can march vs. M5 with no marching). As such, I think they can find a place in a Lizardmen army as mobile hammers to complement the Saurus anvils.
 
rothgar13 said:
Bear in mind that the Maneaters have to pay extra for all those weapon options, so while they are great, they'll end up costing quite a bit more than Krox. I think the closest comparison is actually to the Tomb Kings' Ushabti. Compared to that, the Kroxigor stacks up like so:

+1 M, -1 WS, +1 S, -2 I, -1 Ld, -Undead, -Animated Construct, +1 armor, +Aquatic, +Cold Blooded, +Predatory Fighter

I'd say the Kroxigor stacks up pretty favorably - that extra S and armor are a big deal, as is Predatory Fighter (to say nothing of M6 that can march vs. M5 with no marching). As such, I think they can find a place in a Lizardmen army as mobile hammers to complement the Saurus anvils.
Click to expand...

Well, that's why I said "option to take equipment" as a plus, not actually having the equipment.

I still think they are better compared to maneaters as Ushabti are a fairly poor choice, whereas Maneaters can fill a nice roll. And if you don't take any of the equipment options, they're priced the same as Kroxigors, but most likely better in most circumstances.

That being said, I still like Kroxigors and will eventually try out a unit of 6-8 I think.
 
Maneaters will put up a spirited effort (particularly with Poison and/or Stubborn), but I don't see them outperforming Kroxigors by that much. When facing high armor saves (read: 2+ or higher) and S3-4 spam, Kroxigors will come out on top thanks to their great weapons and armor, respectively. Those circumstances are common enough to give them a niche in the Monstrous Infantry totem pole.

And Ushabti are a bit underrated a choice in the Tomb Kings army. There are threads (and lots of math-hammer) to suggest that if you're not investing in Tomb Kings or Princes, they may be the way to go for Tomb Kings fighting units, and that really frees up character points to be invested in what Tomb Kings truly do best (magic).
 
Kroxigors have another thing going for them:
Their army has acces to buffs.
Im not familiar with OK's magic potential, but to my knowledge they dont.
 
Actually most ogre magic is buffs...

either +1 toughness... or regen... or +1 S
 
Ushabti are easily the worst Monstrous infantry point for point in WHFB, really comparing any other books MI to them is just odd.

I plan on taking a unit of 6 to see how they do though, if they perform well i'll probably bump them up to 8.
 
When I first started playing lizzies partway through 6th ed, I always fielded a couple units of krox as flankers to support the infantry blocks. They were also great straight up hammers that would charge in through the skinks and win (back when charging first almost always meant auto-win thanks to striking first, killing the front rank & not having to suffer step-up or supporting attacks back). With the new book, the krox are back but in a unit of 6 and they have really done well (granted, it's only been two games). Here are a few of the things that I have already discovered work well with the krox:

1) skink skirmish screen - protects against BS shooting and provides opportunities for nasty surprise charges. Imagine a screen laid out 10 wide (spread over ~12" with gaps) with the krox behind on the left. To the opponent, it appears that a krox charge would require the skinks to charge in also. However, the skinks declare a charge against a unit to the right. As skirmishers, they immediately close up about their centre to 7", now exposing the krox. The skinks charge off to the right and even a failed charge puts them out of the way while the krox charge straight ahead and into combat.

2) krox offensive/defensive stats - while they won't hold up against high strength hits, they are far more resilient than many monsters against annoying S3/S4 attacks, especially with the skink screen/meat shield. Offensively, there is virtually nothing in the game against which their S7 is not a threat. They can take on big monsters with very good success and are absolutely crushing against infantry as stomp also comes into play. A flank charge is incredibly punishing as it maximizes the krox while minimizing attacks back.

3) Mobility - M6 and march 12" makes them much more mobile than saurus and the unit footprint vs saurus is smaller, making wheels tighter and their ability to squeeze through narrow openings slightly better. Toss in aquatic (not that anyone ever let's me put marshes/rivers on the table!) and they definitely have the advantage over saurus when it comes to moving around the battlefield.

4) magic buffs - even the smallest of buffs makes a huge difference and this can be done very slyly to fool your opponent. High magic provides two major opportunities to do this through WBW and HoG. Obviously, a 12" march followed by 10" ethereal move is not something your opponent is likely to allow. However, how about boosting the krox move with HoG this turn? Your opponent isn't likely to stop it and will likely forget about it - until the next turn. With an average boost of 2, the krox now have M8 - increasing their charge range or giving them a 16" march!! This latter aspect is really nice since it allows the krox to move into a rear/flank position and still wheel into a good charge arc. Once in combat, HoG for WS or wyssan's make for superb buffs, either one of which will boost the krox performance both offensively and defensively.

5) Durability & flexibility - with 18 wounds, they are much harder to kill off than a steg and so can deny VPs. As MI they can assault/defend buildings while the absence of ITP, although a weakness, also gives the opportunity to flee if it is absolutely necessary.

Overall, I love the new krox and I think I will pick up another half dozen to flesh out my core troops.
 
I'm fairly new to warhammer (fantasy at least, played 40k for ages), and was wondering if it would be wise to put a pair of Skink priests in a Krox only unit. If I placed them in front of the middle krox would I get a rank bonus for the back half of the Krox, or does that only work for Skrox cohort units?

Seems to me that this would make a pretty brutal small, mobile unit. If the priests had Wyssans, so much better - or even take them as level 2 wizards with beasts so they each have an extra spell to beef up the unit champion to ridiculous levels - imagine savage beat and panns pelt, making a strength 10, toughness 7 champion with 7 attacks and predatory fighter. Or either of those 2 with wyssans. Or all 3 with the swarms poison buff. Sure you'd only have one turn to use it since the priests can't cast in combat, but for that one turn it would make some lords cry, and the other krox in the unit would be dishing out quite a bit of damage too.

And that's not even counting any help the Slann could provide.
 
Unfortunately, a skink priest in a krox unit has to go on the outside since their footprint does not match the unit. In addition, since he is of a different unit type, template shooting & spells can pick him off without a "look out, sir" roll. Besides that, at T2, they are definitely not a model that you want getting in combat with anything, let alone as part of a unit that is striking last. Finally, all the buffs can be cast from a distance and thus there is no reason to expose the priest to undue risk. The reality is that skink priests are too chicken to engage in a straight up brawl but smart enough to get their bigger brethren to do it for them!
 
Yea the Skink Priest should generaly avoid close combat, as they are very squishy.
 
Reddogfish said:
Actually most ogre magic is buffs...

either +1 toughness... or regen... or +1 S
Click to expand...


ah...well......nevermind me then!
 
Pity. It would have been pretty easy to write in a rule making it a viable unit, what with the skrox rules already in existence, and it makes sense for the priests to use krox bodyguards. I guess I can just keep running the priests solo but it would have made a nice unit of it could be done properly.
 
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