8th Ed. Krox and Skinks

[Viarca]

Those restrictions look like a perfect storm for a WoC army to thrive.

 

[Coatl]

and there in lies the problem with restrictions and banning, imo. by banning those overpowered spells that you so love to hate, how pray tell do you stop a horde of chaos trolls with 4 warshrines in support? no matter what you do to try and balance a rule set, there will always be gaps in the system. thats the funny thing about pendulums, they always swing when you push them. enough on that though. long live skrox! may you always laugh in the face of the dreaded 13th

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

but we can always agree to disagree .

I think that may be the best idea, or this could go on for ages.... But it'd be fun

on a more positive note, tomb kings are coming out in may, so yay for that. not a tk player myself (i only play lizards) but its good to see GW updating some neglected codexs (keep your fingers crossed for necrons this fall)

Yaaaay, maybe I can stop vsing Dwarfs or Delves.
Necrons are definatley in works, just pray Ward doesn't touch them, of you might have stories of emotional Necrons
But once they do get updated, it's time for the Krox to sit on the shelf so I can build my robotic army

All valid points. My only point is that there are multiple ways to beat lists like that. Granted for a closed list tourny it's unrealistic to make a list to counter one specific army, not very fun.

That was the plan.
True, it's just application of certain xs to your opponent's ys. (But finding them is the hard bit I guess).
Sooooo true, then you end up play not so much WHFB more like Rock Paper Scissors.

And yes skrox are hit or miss but they can be useful if used in a support role. Personally, against armies like that, I rely on my sallies and slann to pull me through.

Hehe, I love it, because I miss-treat my Skrox massivley, i'm always throwing them hap-harazdly at stuff (like swordsmasters) and I tell you, it works.... Sometimes.

Every edition since I've played has had nasty combos that people dreaded playing against, no matter who writes the books. When gw writes rules, people always find ways to use and abuse them

Now it is my turn: valid point haha.

Wow, someone woke on the wrong side of the bed. Actually I woke on the wrong side of th bed and your so angry I think you must have woke on the wrong side of the top bunk bed and fell off too.

No, I didn't, like Caotl, I just like to debate.

Just because Ward or any other game designer makes some things you don't like doesn't mean you have to just arbitrarily play what you like.

Does not compute.

But telling someone off and being rube about it isn't the way to debate.

I don't believe I told him off, and if I was rude, I do apologise, no offense was meant, it's probably just too much Warseer time. I'll watch out for that now on though, thanks, JM.

....I just wall of text'd.

 

[JohnMavrick]

I don't believe I told him off, and if I was rude, I do apologise, no offense was meant, it's probably just too much Warseer time. I'll watch out for that now on though, thanks, JM.

I can definately sympathize here buddy, that place is striken with people who go crazy on the forums.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

I can definately sympathize here buddy, that place is striken with people who go crazy on the forums.

'Tis like a disease, I think I might be sticking to race-specific forums now.
Here for Lizzie stuff, UE for Skaven.

 

[JohnMavrick]

Asrai.org is another good forum. They keep a pretty decent reign on people who mash others and they have some pretty intelligent people there as well so it's a good place to learn about Wood Elf tactics and unit/character builds.

 

[Overhamsteren]

Tried units with 2 krox and 22 skinks 5 wide a long time ago and they didn't really work for me so turned to the saurus for my core for a long time. Have used 3 krox and 24 skinks 6 wide lately and they are very good, they last pretty long and the kroxigor gives good punch, strength 6 sometimes threatening things who would walk all over saurus. Immunity to stomping is nice too.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

Immunity to stomping is nice too.

You mean the Krox stop you from being stomped?
Can I have a quote to this (if I don't have one, our Ogre player will never believe me)
Thanks for pointing it out.

JM: Is that a WE only site?

 

[Overhamsteren]

Check this thread out
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=997257#p997257 it's about the no stomping business.

 

[Grant]

Pretty much stomp says that it can only be used against infantry and swarms. However, a skink cohort unit with kroxigors is not infantry, it is a "unique" unit type.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

Absolutley made of win awesome.
Thanks guys.

 

[Viarca]

Until I see an official ruling on the stomp thing, I'm a little wary of trying to enforce it. Would it mean that a Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace-containing Skaven unit is also immune to Stomp? I'm not saying you guys are wrong, I think the RAW allows for this interpretation, but it also seems to be another one of those fuzzy areas. Meta-game is everything though, so if people are cool with it where you play, more power to you, but no one seemed to go for the argument here.

I also just noticed all the discussion earlier about Teclis. The only times I ever played a Teclis army was in a campaign over the summer and once against a newer player. Special charaters are pretty taboo among the regular Fantasy players here (40k is a different story). It seems to me though, Lizardmen have a pretty good answer for Teclis that would work well against many other opponents as well: the Blood Statuette of Spite (his T2 maks this awfully tempting). I'm not saying it's likely to take all 3 of his wounds regularly, but combine it on a SP with Cupped Hands and a Bane Head on a Slann (a combo I take often in my current 2500), and you threaten a lot of wizards (Teclis still takes the miscast results, since its not his, right?).

On a note related to this thread, the SKrox units seem to do very well supported by the Lore of Light buffs. If they get a good WS and the -1 to hit them from Pha's Protection, then the T2 doesn't seem to really matter much (though Saurus become pretty scary buffed like this too). When I try them with a Slann using Lore of Life, they don't tend to perform well at all for me though.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.
There is a titanic difference between Skrox and BellFurnace units.
The Bell/Furnace is a character mount, it just can't leave that unit. Therefore, you can stomp the unit, not the Bell/Furnace. Saying you can't stomp those units, is like saying you can't stop Saurus from being stomped if them have a Cold One mounted hero in them.

 

[Viarca]

What is the titanic difference? It becomes a unit with a mixed profile and is no longer purely infantry, which seems to be the argument for the Skrox unit as well. Adding a mounted hero to a unit of infantry was another example given in the argument against this as well. Going to the FAQ for Curse of the Horned Rat/Dreaded 13th is the only real clarification, but even ten, the Bell/Furnace, while described as a "Special type of mount," is a non-character model with a unique profile (I think it can be inferred that this is the same as a normal character mount, but it is not expressly stated since it's "Special"). I had the printed FAQ for the Skaven and we addressed it and couldn't reach a consensus (some seemed to concede, while most did not).

You can take a condescending tone all you want, but I still think it is far from clear, as Stomp and Curse of the Horned Rat are different things, and having to cite FAQs to indirectly address the issue isn't a definitive ruling. This is far from being the only fuzzy issue, and I think you have to go with the consensus in your metagame/area. I personally do not disagree with your interpretation, but the minute you start having to give a little wiggle room on the rules to allow something that hasn't been specifically addressed, you make way for a lot of other stuff.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

What is the titanic difference?

THe titanic difference is that Krox are purchases with the unit, and there is no possibilty of them not being in the unit one they're bought. The Bell/Furnace doesn't have to be in that unit, itcould go in another one (unless it's the only one on the table). Basically, my point is, that Krox are bought directly with the unit, and as such, prevent stomps. I do see your point, but in the Bell/Furnace area, it seems simple, ones in contact with the Bell/Furnace and nothing else can't stomp. Well, that's how i'd take it, it seems pretty clear to do something like that.

You can take a condescending tone all you want

That wasn't a condescending tone.

but I still think it is far from clear, as Stomp and Curse of the Horned Rat are different things, and having to cite FAQs to indirectly address the issue isn't a definitive ruling. This is far from being the only fuzzy issue, and I think you have to go with the consensus in your metagame/area. I personally do not disagree with your interpretation, but the minute you start having to give a little wiggle room on the rules to allow something that hasn't been specifically addressed, you make way for a lot of other stuff.

True.
You should tell that to all the people who say HPAs, DWs, etc can't get 11+ on their 3D6 movement and the like because of a OnG (or was it Daemons?) FAQ
Well, okay, that FAQ wont exist anymore if it was OnG because of the new book, but that cheesed me off that did.

Oh, but I do agree on the consensus thing, everyone here will be fine with it, except the OK player, he finds ways to change his opinion based on his army.

Ahem.... Rant off....