AoS Killing of models with special equipment

[Canas]

A lot of units can wear special equipment, and the power of this equipment varies wildly. In certain cases this special equipment is arguably the only reason the unit is fielded at all. Is there any way to target a specific model in a unit? Cuz for some units, like the stormforged judicator with his specal crossbow, the majority of the unit feels like cannonfodder that's really only there to protect to one equiped with a special weapon. Is there any sort of rule ensuring that you don't literally have to wipe out an entire unit just to deal with 1 special weapon/ability?

 

[Crowsfoot]

Not that I know of, only way is to get into base contact and use specific equipment against said target, think Wraith King Black axe etc

 

[Canas]

meh... that's annoying. I think I'l go make up a houserule for that then.. saurus warriors with banners not being explictly targetable is fine, but stuff like those judicators are problematic.

 

[Bowser]

No, in 8th you could target them, but now, as the opponent chooses the casualties the special equipment is usually the last to go. My friend who plays skaven wanted to target my moonhammer kroxigor so many times.

 

[Crowsfoot]

meh... that's annoying. I think I'l go make up a houserule for that then.. saurus warriors with banners not being explictly targetable is fine, but stuff like those judicators are problematic.

I quite like the way you pick your own casualties to remove it opens another level of tactics.

 

[Seraphage]

I quite like the way you pick your own casualties to remove it opens another level of tactics.

Yeah it does lack the verisimilitude ( woah big word or what, guess I just learnt a new one ) but it is compensated with the tactics that are allowed this way

 

[Canas]

Yeah it does lack the verisimilitude ( woah big word or what, guess I just learnt a new one ) but it is compensated with the tactics that are allowed this way

In certain aspects it's nice, especially when concerning units like the saurus warriors where the individual warriors don't differ that much (a banner a musician or a captain that has 1 extra attack). Being able to pick who dies and getting units out of combat by picking them the right way can be quite interesting.

It's just in cases of units like the judicators or the kroxigors, where the special weapon is 90% of the power of the unit it gets really annoying really fast.

 

[Crowsfoot]

In certain aspects it's nice, especially when concerning units like the saurus warriors where the individual warriors don't differ that much (a banner a musician or a captain that has 1 extra attack). Being able to pick who dies and getting units out of combat by picking them the right way can be quite interesting.

It's just in cases of units like the judicators or the kroxigors, where the special weapon is 90% of the power of the unit it gets really annoying really fast.

True but do you not find it makes you have a concentrated attack plan to take out the unit, thus opening another tactical avenue when deploying such units?

 

[Aginor]

Hhmmmm.... aren't there some abilities that are exceptions from the "owner chooses" rule?
Aleguzzlers can stuff models in their bag. Chosen by the attacker.

 

[Bowser]

There is that exception.

 

[Canas]

True but do you not find it makes you have a concentrated attack plan to take out the unit, thus opening another tactical avenue when deploying such units?

That'd be the case if you didn't rapidly get into a situation where you want to take out 5 specific models amongst 40, 3 of which are in units of 5+ models and the other 2 are heroes/monsters and the other 35 models are essentially fodder. To be honest the notion of units as opposed to individual soldiers is one of the things I least like about AoS. It has it advantages, but it creates quite a lot of odd situations in certain cases.

 

[n810]

I believe Oxital [sp?] (chameleon skink hero)
had a pdf. for AoS....
he lets you snipe a character inside a unit.

 

[Canas]

I believe Oxital [sp?] (chameleon skink hero)
had a pdf. for AoS....
he lets you snipe a character inside a unit.

Meh, I want a generic rule. Units protecting key-models is fine, but there needs to be some way to reliably and purposely take out special models like that. In the case of the judicators, if you field them against saurus guard the special weapon with it's mortal wounds is literally the only model in that unit that is a threat and it's a massive threat.

How did the targetting of specific models in a unit work in 8th edition? Maybe that works as a nice houserule.

 

[n810]

You could target lords and hero's sometimes.
(usually through challenges where characters fought other characters)

The other method was thought ranged attacks either conventional or magic.
Mostly the character will get an additional save though as one of his unit takes the hit in his place.

 

[Bowser]

That'd be the case if you didn't rapidly get into a situation where you want to take out 5 specific models amongst 40, 3 of which are in units of 5+ models and the other 2 are heroes/monsters and the other 35 models are essentially fodder. To be honest the notion of units as opposed to individual soldiers is one of the things I least like about AoS. It has it advantages, but it creates quite a lot of odd situations in certain cases.

There isn't a unit that has 40 models where 3 of them are monsters and a hero. Heroes can't join units. So if the hero is in weapon range you can target that. You just can't pick off say the skyhook guy from the arkanauts.

 

[Canas]

There isn't a unit that has 40 models where 3 of them are monsters and a hero. Heroes can't join units. So if the hero is in weapon range you can target that. You just can't pick off say the skyhook guy from the arkanauts.

I meant an army of X models of which only Y are really important and the others are vastly less relevant.

E.g. I have 23 stormforged:
10 liberators
5 judicators
3 retributors
3 prosecutors
1 lord relictor
1 lord celestant on dracoth

Regardless of what exactly I'm fielding facing this my top three targets would be:
Lord relictor
Lord celestant
That 1 judicator with his magic crossbow

The reason for this being that they provide a reliable and constant stream of ranged mortal wounds that I have no way of interacting with. The retributors also have mortal wounds, but those aren't as reliable and since they aren't ranged I can actually send in my own fodder to eat the brunt of their attack. And the rest I barely even care about.

The two lords are fairly simple, it's 1 guy go kill him. The 1 judicator I need to murder his entire unit before I can actually get to him. And this feels... wrong. And for this I'd like an actual strategy of dealing with beyond just "murder everything". E.g. say I manage to attack them in the back so I can get to the guy with the special equipment.

 

[Seraphage]

Well you can maybe think it this way :
The reason the unit with the crossbow costs as much is exactly due to the crossbow and it would become way too expensive for what it gives the moment he'd die, so I think you are looking this the wrong way

 

[Crowsfoot]

I meant an army of X models of which only Y are really important and the others are vastly less relevant.

E.g. I have 23 stormforged:
10 liberators
5 judicators
3 retributors
3 prosecutors
1 lord relictor
1 lord celestant on dracoth

Regardless of what exactly I'm fielding facing this my top three targets would be:
Lord relictor
Lord celestant
That 1 judicator with his magic crossbow

The reason for this being that they provide a reliable and constant stream of ranged mortal wounds that I have no way of interacting with. The retributors also have mortal wounds, but those aren't as reliable and since they aren't ranged I can actually send in my own fodder to eat the brunt of their attack. And the rest I barely even care about.

The two lords are fairly simple, it's 1 guy go kill him. The 1 judicator I need to murder his entire unit before I can actually get to him. And this feels... wrong. And for this I'd like an actual strategy of dealing with beyond just "murder everything". E.g. say I manage to attack them in the back so I can get to the guy with the special equipment.

I know where your coming from and all it does for me is highlight how weak our units are, I can't think of one unit that has a special character with an insane weapon, can you?

 

[Canas]

I know where your coming from and all it does for me is highlight how weak our units are, I can't think of one unit that has a special character with an insane weapon, can you?

The only thing we have would be our kroxigor with a moonhammer, but due to how that weapon works it's much simpler to counter. 1) it's melee, 2) it's normal wounds 3) you can reduce it's effectiveness with positioning & using the right units. The judicators crossbow on the other hand can't be interacted with in any meaningfull way.

Well you can maybe think it this way :
The reason the unit with the crossbow costs as much is exactly due to the crossbow and it would become way too expensive for what it gives the moment he'd die, so I think you are looking this the wrong way

In fairness, I do also think including these items in the base-price of a unit isn't a good thing either

Anyways, compare it to the skaven weaponteams. Those are 1-model units with a extremely powerfull weapon. Since it's 1 model it can be caught and killed fairly easily so you need to protect it using clever positioning. The judicator in my example feels very much like someone took a weaponteam and attached a bunch of fodder to it to keep it safe.

 

[Killer Angel]

IIRC, there is a certain number of spells that let you target a specific model of a unit. But it's certainly not a general rule (if anything, these few exceptions are the further proof that normally you cannot target models).