8th Ed. Just droping by

[Quinras]

Greeting fellow Lustrians,

Just thought I'd drop by and say hello. I'm new to WFB, allthough I am a +- 10 year wh40k veteran. But I resently met some people who do play WFB, so I had a reason to start as well.

Yeah that's it basically xD. My fantasy battle count so far isn't good, 3 battles played, 3 lost
Just wondering if you guys had some nice tips and tricks. About lizards, about fantasy itself.

 

[Putzfrau]

Hello!

A little extra info would help. What have your lists looked like? What size battles are you playing? What "kind" of list are you trying to build?

 

[Quinras]

Na I didn't mean to go into that much detail, just some general remarks.

I am new to fantasy, so I have no clue how to know which unit is worth it, which kind of list works.


For example, in all three battles I had a unit of 30 Saurus warriors. However all three times they where decimated before they could do anything. Aparently I am missing something. I had full command, and a slan general near them.

 

[lizard_sNow]

Hello as well!

Another question is which armies you play against? Tactics vary with each opponent. Welcome to WFB! YOu chose the right army, so dont get discouraged.

 

[Quinras]

I was playing 2k against skaven.

I had 40 saurus warriors full command.
Slann (BSB) in 10 temple guard with full command
5 cold one riders
4 jungle swarms
bastiladon

and 40 skinks cohort with tetto'ekko


I honestly do not know everything he had with skaven. He had like 2* 50 slaves, 1 skaven cohort, some monks with a huge ass wreaking ball thing, come lightning cannon and a hell pit abomination

 

[rantapanda]

how i do it is begin building my list against what is concerning me the most.
with skaven it goes something like this..
hmm that hellpit sure looks nasty. now what is good against it? perhaps this or that or skink bsb with flaming banner and skink cloud perhaps or fireslann..
now whats also nasty..mmm doomwheels -- well perhaps ill kill them with magic.
also those pesky cannons are annoying -- ill bring some chameleons
then i need something do deal with those huge hordes -- salamanders should do the trick.
oh and i prob need some anvil saurusblox too

so what u need to do is counter the enemys stuff.
its rock paper scissors

 

[RasputinII]

I think the biggest thing that takes some getting used to in Fantasy coming from 40K is movement. In 40k movement is just about position for cover and LOS/Range. In fantasy movement is everything. Its about range and shooting and magic. But its also about dictating the flow of battle, about picking match-ups and blocking match-ups. Getting your hammers to hit things you want to hit.

In no mean spirited way, fantasy is a more challenging game to play because its not so point and click. Its has more nuances of positioning. Units that's sole purpose is to die (Chaff) are invaluable, and some regions playing with a lot of chaff. Whilst its true some armies are point and click, on the whole building an army is like amassing a collection of tools. You need answers to the popular meta game questions if your building an all comers list. If you tailoring a list to fight specific opponents you need to have answer that their army book pose. But your list needs to also force questions on the opponent, it needs to have things that an opponents needs to deal with.

In the beginning trying to grasp the complexities of army list building and movement shouldn't be a high priority. Instead focus on getting in games and learning the rules and how things work. As you play games and learn the rules you will begin to see strengths and weaknesses with what you have been using. You will probably begin experimenting with your list in smaller way. Bumping up the size of one unit and bumping down the size of another. Adding new units etc... Start with what you think is cool. Go from there. Play games and you will fairly quickly get a very clear picture of whats going on. If you struggle to find time to game try out www.universalbattle.com and play some games online, its great.

If you want to gain insight and pick up ideas try reading through the tactical index of threads in the tactics forum. Also read through army lists you see on the army list forum.Watch youtube battles (this is very helpful I think). Looking at army lists can be a bit like trying to find the forest for the trees. There's a good read in the tactical index about basic different types of lizardmen armies, which will help give you a grounding.

But above all, play games, experiment, lose games, ready stuff and have fun

 

[Quinras]

Thanks, I will try that site.

I had noticed movement is more important, but haven't figured out just how much.

But also, I tried some units, like the troglodon, and cold one riders, but I think I am missing something. I keep reading how powerfull the troglodon for example is, but it did exacly jack when I used it. The cold one riders as well. I find thm expensive to begin with, thus they are with very few and will (have been) get slaughtered.
I haven't tried the terradons yet, but when I read their rules, they trike me as being overly expensive lustrian javalins which can throw a rock once a battle and still suck in combat.

I probably sound like a noob right now, but I think the main question is, how do I interpret what is in the book to battlefield uses? Maybe my mind is warped by the 40k chaos gods...

 

[rantapanda]

well troglodon is crap.
cold ones are there only to be a bus for those killy oldbloods and scarvets.
and terradons are warmachine hunters.

 

[GhostWarrior]

I think Rasputin II had a very good analysis for you regarding general tactics/strategies for this game.

I too played 40k, heavily in 3rd-5th editions, and the differences between games (while having similar core to-hit, to-wound charts) couldn't be more stark.

Another BIG thing about WHFB is planning for the meta. I don't know how broad your scope of play is (garage vs. gamestore vs. tournament) - but planning for what opponents might bring is just so different between the 2 game systems.

While in 40k you can generally focus on how to build to destroy Space Marines (or any 3+ armor variants), the same cannot be said for WHFB. Of the 16 armies that players can bring (if you count Chaos Dwarfs), really very few have even similar styles of play or focus. And while some core stats will be the same, their gear and spells will vary enough to give each its own very distinct flavor.

For you, I'd say just focus on doing what Lizards tend to do best. The consensus there seems to be that Lizards are a reliable army (leadership), with a strong magic phase (when using a Slann), that can be difficult to engage via multiple 10-man units of Javelin Skink skirmishers for core (Saurus being an optional choice really). The best killing power comes from Scar Veterans and Oldbloods mounted on Cold Ones with Great Weapons, and built as tanky as possible (all should have 1+ saves, with either re-rolls for armor, or 4+ or 5+ wards to follow). The only monsters that tend to have consistent success are the Stegadons (Ancient is generally worth the extra points for St6), and the Bastiladon (for the Lazer beam). The other monsters are quite sub-par - either lack of killing power (Trog) or lack of defense (Carno).

Focus not only on movement, but on your angles when you are positioning. When putting Skinks up to shoot, then get charged for example, think about what options the enemy will have when they break/overrun your unit. If you can setup good counters to that, then you reduce the desirability of engagement by your opponent.

Keep it up, and good luck!