7th Ed. Jungle Swarms.... are they a do or don't?

[strewart]

Yeah that is certainly a good point, and I did briefly mention that sometimes they will kill 5 or 6 models and other times they will do absolutely nothing and just get smashed.

The variance in a unit performance is, I believe, something that most people want to minimize. Certainly a few tournie players I have seen around saying they would never take cold ones because they are unpredictable with their stupidity. Not everyone is going to want to go for the absolute perfect list, but it still is somewhat important for everyone to reduce variance. If you have a unit (swarms) that could in 1 game, destroy a whole unit themselves, and in the next game charge in and just bounce right off, are you going to be confident charging them in? Or taking them in the first place, when you could replace them with the much more predictable skinks?

Same thing for razordons, one game they will roll a juicy 10 and destroy a whole knight unit. Another game, they will roll a misfire and kill themselves. Or even a 2 will be nearly as ineffective. In fact, if you look at their variance, I think you will find the majority of their possible outcomes are either just as good as the shooting from an equal point unit of skinks, or worse, which is why they are considered underperformers.

On the other hand, if you look at a unit of saurus, they are tough, have good armour, multiple armour piercing (due to s4) attacks, and cold blooded. Even if they somehow manage to fluff their attacks on the charge, they will more than likely stick around for either reinforcements or for the dice to turn their way next time, with the potential for even more damage if you used spears. They are a solid and reliable unit, you know what you are going to get from them and even at the extreme end of variance (not quite extreme, it is still possible for them to break on the first turn, but this is the case with literally everything, the fact is it is a lot less likely for saurus than swarms) you can be fairly confident that they will stick around and still have a chance to redeem themselves.

 

[Itzi-Bitzi]

I agree that swarms do have a lot of variance (and I admit I have been lucky with them but I have also used them in games where they have not performed that well). And as I had said I believe their use is very situational. Often for the equivalence of points there are many other better choices especially in tournament lists, but they are worth taking for certain roles and for specific uses on the battlefield.
I have found that a unit of Saurus warriors have been flattened by a Giant in two turns in two of 3 battles I have played. So far in the two games I have taken a unit of two or three swarms against a giant I have tied up the giant for a few turns. One of the games killing it outright taking 4 wounds in my turn and the remaining two in the following turn, and in the other game I took three wounds off the giant before loosing the swarms. Both times the swarms paid for their points and tied up a unit/monster that otherwise would have been a real headache to deal with and potentially put it out of the game. I have also found the swarms especially useful against dark elf hydras..... but i've only tried that once so far.
Ultimately as I've said it depends on what you want them for on the table and their roles in the batle. If you are going to send swarms against a big block of troops you are certain to get smashed. Most times that I have charged blocks of troops with swarms they have been wiped out but 3 bases are usually stilll there (just) in your next turn after charging last turn. You need to use them right, for tying up strong units/ take out or just tie up monsters such as giants, hydras etc. Then they are worth taking, otherwise if you plan on charging big blocks of troops take saurus (better use of your points).
Also you could argue that a unit of skinks have poisoned shooting attacks against a giant. If they get charged they are toast. Swarms will most likely stick around long enough to do the job with their unbreakable rule. It also depends on what attack the giant uses against you .
As i've already said I don't take them because they are the best choice; I take them because I like them, they look cool, add variety to your army composition and they provide good options for a well-rounded balanced list. I don't believe they are as bad as what everyone says (they are expensive but so are razordons for what they do) everything has a role in the list and brings another dimension to the army that makes Lizardmen so appealling.

 

[Eternity_Warden]

I have found that a unit of Saurus warriors have been flattened by a Giant in two turns in two of 3 battles I have played.

Hmm...

The first time I ever used saurus, my unit of 18 with HWs destroyed a giant in a single turn...

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

I'd take them for the above reasons except; the only player that i'll play frequently is collecting WoC, doing an army with more knights then i'd care to face. So swarms are just too bad when vsing them...

I may be wrong, but when i start collecting an army, and then he does one after me, he collects his just so it'll be good against mine...