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7th Ed. Jungle Swarms.... are they a do or don't?

KroxigorsFTW
Razordon

KroxigorsFTW

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Hello, sorry if a topic like this has been posted, but i really want to know.


What are you guy(s) and girl(s) opinions on jungle swarms? I havn't seen any in a list since the O&G came out, so i was wondering, are they actually worth it? I'd like to include them because i love the idea behind them and just think they're cool in general, but i'd like to hear what the pro's hve to say first.

Thanks.
 
There a dont....High cost, crumbling...sooo many other reasons....but the fluff is cool :depressed:
 
Yep swarms have definitely been nerfed now that they crumble. In 6th ed they were probably a bit too powerful, but now they are just crap.

I do know of one or two players that use them and swear by them. I think the idea was two units of 1 swarm base to use as speed bumps and to redirect chargers to set up flank attacks. Most people don't touch them though.
 
Barotok said:
It's a great idea to look through a few threads to see if your question is answered already in a different thread before creating a new topic.

http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/jungle-swarms.1571/

I know that JS are discussed in several other threads, just can't remember any others off the top of my head.
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Sorry for getting post happy...


But, im no touney player and would only use them for the idea.... or in some themed game (with a house rule... ie: the theme) where the lizzie player gets like D3 or D6 units each turn.... or like D6 units of D3 bass.....

Oh and thanks for the link.

hmmm.... that's not a bad idea.... maybe i'll stat thinking of a senario....
 
Hey that would be a really cool special rule for a scenario in the jungle, d3 or d6 wounds worth of swarm bases get added for free to the LM at certain points. I'll have to think about that, unique scenarios and fights are much fun.
 
strewart said:
Hey that would be a really cool special rule for a scenario in the jungle, d3 or d6 wounds worth of swarm bases get added for free to the LM at certain points. I'll have to think about that, unique scenarios and fights are much fun.
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By wounds what do you mean? Im sure you'll get to try this before i do, so can you please let me know how the battle goes, what the scenario rules are etc... I do think that this could be a very fun mission... and a solution to people not using swarm bases.
 
Well for example, if you roll a 3 then you get a swarm with 3 wounds. Roll a 6 and you get a full strength base plus one with a single wound left. Maybe it would be better to give each base spawned a max of 2-3 wounds so there are more bases, but easier to kill.
 
You can spend the points else where 2 swarms = 10 skinks with jav's and champ. You tell me which is better.
 
from 6th to 7th they truly went from hero to zero (I used to take 6 bases in 2k pts!) :walkingdead:
 
I prefer 2 swarms over 10 Javs + Champ any day.. I hate javs, crappy range weapons.

Can't say the swarms are really that bad.. but it would help if they would drop the price with 15-20 pts
 
Loosing 15-20 points in price will make them seem a little more fair as far as value for points cost. However, this doesn't change the fact of how effective they are at tying up an enemy in combat for a few rounds. I'd say we'd probably see a bit of resurgance in use of swarms if the points got lowered, but I'm still skeptical as to really how much they'd be used considering how much power they've lost.
 
Barotok said:
Loosing 15-20 points in price will make them seem a little more fair as far as value for points cost. However, this doesn't change the fact of how effective they are at tying up an enemy in combat for a few rounds. I'd say we'd probably see a bit of resurgance in use of swarms if the points got lowered, but I'm still skeptical as to really how much they'd be used considering how much power they've lost.
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Yeha, that's been one of the only things that's stopped me using them in a 7th list so far; the cost.


strewart said:
Well for example, if you roll a 3 then you get a swarm with 3 wounds. Roll a 6 and you get a full strength base plus one with a single wound left. Maybe it would be better to give each base spawned a max of 2-3 wounds so there are more bases, but easier to kill.
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Ah... that makes sense, we're getting somewhere :)
 
Would be interesting to see a lizardmen specific magic lore in which a spell that allow for conjuring wounds of Jungle Swarms. In this way you could also 'heal' swarms that were already deployed and the opponent would have to throw dispell dice at it to keep it from happening.
 
It is kinda stupid we didn't get our own Lore.. a couple of armies have them already ( wth ogre's!?) but that is some other discussion.

I don't say there are no better options than swarms cause there obviously is a lot more. But if you like to use them and are playing against ogre's and don't want only skinks against them.. You should take them.. Also.. don't they give points at some tournaments?
 
WheelR said:
It is kinda stupid we didn't get our own Lore.. a couple of armies have them already ( wth ogre's!?) but that is some other discussion.

I don't say there are no better options than swarms cause there obviously is a lot more. But if you like to use them and are playing against ogre's and don't want only skinks against them.. You should take them.. Also.. don't they give points at some tournaments?
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Well, i can show you a LotOO (that's lore of the old ones) that's a wip if yod'd like.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192555

How are swarms at being arrow/fire magnets?
 
I'm not 100% sure, but I am fairly sure that part of the rules for swarms is that they don't block LoS to normal sized models anymore, so they wouldn't work as fire magnets because they aren't worth shooting.

As to having our own lore... Well, it would be nice but really so many armies get their own lore, there are so few using the 8 main lores that those ones are almost obsolete, especially since unique lores tend to be stronger than the 8 lores, and definitely more suited to the army they belong to. GW either needs to give every army their own lore, or back off a bit on the unique lores so the 8 aren't so little used in comparison.
 
strewart said:
I'm not 100% sure, but I am fairly sure that part of the rules for swarms is that they don't block LoS to normal sized models anymore, so they wouldn't work as fire magnets because they aren't worth shooting.

As to having our own lore... Well, it would be nice but really so many armies get their own lore, there are so few using the 8 main lores that those ones are almost obsolete, especially since unique lores tend to be stronger than the 8 lores, and definitely more suited to the army they belong to. GW either needs to give every army their own lore, or back off a bit on the unique lores so the 8 aren't so little used in comparison.
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Well, i sort of count the EoTG as part of their own lore... Just a little.....
 
I ran some swarms just now in an all skink army versus the empire and they were very helpful. They came around a corner and charged a unit of 5 knights. They dealt a wound and took two wounds, then took two more from CR. I really think that to make these guys work you gotta have like 4 of them, so that they outnumber whatever flanking unit they are fighting and so that their attacks actually get somewhere. However, 90 points of swarms cancelled out 115 points of knights, so fair enough for me.
 
DonkeyHotep said:
I ran some swarms just now in an all skink army versus the empire and they were very helpful. They came around a corner and charged a unit of 5 knights. They dealt a wound and took two wounds, then took two more from CR. I really think that to make these guys work you gotta have like 4 of them, so that they outnumber whatever flanking unit they are fighting and so that their attacks actually get somewhere. However, 90 points of swarms cancelled out 115 points of knights, so fair enough for me.
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So, i suppose it could be said that their effectivness is in numbers (which, admittadly at 45 pts per base, are a bit pricey) and against certain foes (ie squishy empie/elves)? Also, i would say that their opponent also effects their effectivness, ie: Vsing Knights (high AS but low T... well, astleast empire ones) and vsing a Giant (High T, but a poison attack will auto do a wound (i don't recall Giants having saves) where as the Knights have their 1+ save.)
 
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