AoS Impressions of AoS after first game

[classicflava]

So i got my first game in tonite. I played my lizardmen vs dark elves. We set a 7 scroll limit and aimed for around 70 wounds. Here were the lists



Lizards

.Slann Mage Priest

.Kroq Gar

.Saurus Oldblood

.19 Temple Guard

.4 Ripperdactyl Riders

.4 Razordons

.12 Skink Handlers



Dark Elves

.Hellebron

.12 witch elves

.12 executioners

.12 black guard

.7 shades

.5 warlocks

.hydra



We both deployed our entire armies. Movement phase is pretty basic without objectives. shooting as well. Where AoS shines and is actually WAY better than 8th imo is the combat phase. Picking a specific unit to attack with instead of a combat is pure genious. Adds a lot of tactics that i didnt see when looking at the rules. We both made mistakes with this and it hurt badly. We forgot to roll each round to see who would go first but other than that we got all the rules right. I had a great time except for the fact that midway through the game we realized that it really wasnt a fair fight. It felt like i started the game up like 500pts if we were playing in 8th edition. Having no balance system sucks and honestly there isnt any formula that will work because most of a units power comes from its special rules which cant be worked into a formula. Point values would have to be assigned to everything and i dont see that happening. We ended up calling the game after turn 3 because it was obvious that was going to table him.



Positives

.There are tactics believe it or not and i like them

.Synergies between warscrolls is a fun mechanic and would make list building matter if there was a points system

.Games dont take as long

.The way combat works is 1000 times better and is the most tactical phase of the game

.Monsters losing effectiveness as they take wounds is an awesome mechanic

.I think board control is a thing in this game. Rippers blot toad is the board control mechanic for Lizardmen. Assuming the other forces have some as well

.Its fun!!!



Nagatives

.Shooting in combat is stupid

.Summoning breaks the game

.NO POINTS SYSTEM!!!!!! If they atleast gave us something to work with it could be tweaked, but giving us nothing makes it next to impossible to balance



Notes on Lizardmen

.Razordons are disgusting. range 12" and move 8" with 2d6 shots each hitting on 3's rerolling 1's if handlers are within 3 ", and anytime a model charges within 3 " my unit gets to shoot them on a 4+. If within 6 " of the target shots have rend of -1. Plus they have a 4+ save and 3 wounds each.

.Bravery of 10 across the army is huge.

.A slann fights better than an oldblood in combat

.Ripperdactyls are also amazing. with the blot toad they have 7 attacks each rerolling failed hits and wounds on my turn from their swooping attack special rule.

.A slann can summon an army incredibly fast



Verdict

.If there was a points system in place and a couple tweaks to the rules AoS would be my favorite version of fantasy to date. It is much better than i thought it would be, but it is not a viable tournament without a points system in place. Going to give KoW a shot when lizardmen army is released and make my decision on which system i prefer at that point.



Hope this gives some hope to the naysayers out there

 

[pendrake]

It felt like i started the game up like 500pts if we were playing in 8th edition.

Did you add up the point values of the two forces used?
You should, it would be instructive.

Having no balance system sucks and honestly there isn't any formula that will work because most of a units power comes from its special rules which cant be worked into a formula.

ReaperMinis wrote a skirmish game called Warlord. It has a nearly unbreakable points system and an army called Reptus which looks like lizard-men, and snake-men, and dragon-men.

Monsters losing effectiveness as they take wounds is an awesome mechanic

Warlord has had that mechanic from its inception. This idea is not new. GW catching up perhaps, more of an "about time" than an "awesome".

 

[pendrake]

Shooting in combat is stupid

What are your thoughts on shooting into combat? Did either of you try this?

FREX, let's say the Saurus were attacking the Hydra. Then in the next shooting phase your skinks tried to assist by shooting the Hydra.

 

[classicflava]

my carno was fighting a hydra and needed some help so my razordons shot the hydra and did a crapton of wounds. seemed like an easy way out

 

[Arli]

I played a game last night. I used Ripperdactyls and they were amazing. In the first combat phase, my Ripperdactyls utterly destroyed a unit of Ogre Leadbelchers with like 16 wounds from the beak attacks alone. That started as 9 dice then grew due to the voracious appetite. In the second turn, I forgot to use the appetite ability. In the third turn, I remembered to use it and was able to get in about 9 or 10 wounds with 3 Ripperdactyls. On that turn, I never even got to do the attacks from the riders or the claws.

Over all, the game play was pretty good. I think we started with too large of a battle on the small table we were on. I look forward to playing it again.

 

[Avak786]

I played a game last night. I used Ripperdactyls and they were amazing. In the first combat phase, my Ripperdactyls utterly destroyed a unit of Ogre Leadbelchers with like 16 wounds from the beak attacks alone. That started as 9 dice then grew due to the voracious appetite. In the second turn, I forgot to use the appetite ability. In the third turn, I remembered to use it and was able to get in about 9 or 10 wounds with 3 Ripperdactyls. On that turn, I never even got to do the attacks from the riders or the claws.

You should try the Ripperdactyls in a Skink Patrol battalion using swooping dive on a unit with a blot toad. The look on your opponents face when you hand him 30-40 wounds from the beak alone is rather unforgettable!

 

[StegadonSheperd]

It's fun and refreshing to read unbiased reviews that focus on the pros and cons of the game rather
the usual whining, moaning and cursing.
I myself have played two games of AoS already, and agree with the afforemented. It's good fun, there are tactics,
and it's unsuited for tournament play so far (but that never really bothered me).
Thanks for the review!....it was motivational for me since I'm currently in the process of painting my first Kroxigor unit to field whenever i get the time to play another game....

 

[KillerK]

you guy its a sham, all ovre the forums there are new posters who happen to play the game and like it, because it has tactics and its sooo balanced. GW marketing bull shit.

 

[classicflava]

There really are some tactics. Do i think i will end up playing AoS over KoW? Probably not, but if you refuse to try it you really cant give a review

 

[serbianwolf]

I'we seen enough batle reports to say that i dont like it, to simplistic, to say its fun or that there is some chalenge about it....

the reason i aint trying it at all is that i dont want to lose that amount of time on figuring out how to play a balanced game...I dont have the time to be anybodys beta tester in a game i dont really like...

 

[pendrake]

... don't have the time to be anybody's beta tester in a game I don't really like...

It does feel like GW has implemented an F&B cost cutting measure by inviting all of us to be an unorganized, random mess of beta-testers...

...then later they could just replace the online first 4 page rulebook with an improved 6 page rulebook...

Living rulebooks, e-publishing, and internet FTW.

 

[Raymond Caleatry]

These are my brief thoughts on AoS so far. I have also posted this in the Dwarf forum.

I have played three games. I really like the game, even though i did originally think that having no points would be a problem. But after a LOT of "discussion" with friends i have come to the opinion that points don't really matter for casual play, at least not after a couple of games.

Pros:

• The core system is very clean and simple
• Games are much faster
• Magic system is simple, and spells are not crazy, but they are meaningful, and they are hard to counter.
• The games look better without trays as the models interact with the terrain better
• You can put your models into blocks if it pleases you, and it works fine. There are pros and cons to doing this.
• The power levels of models have been brought much closer together. For example, a hoard of zombies can cause serious damage to a horde of Chaos Warriors, in-fact, over time, the zombies will probably win.
• All monsters and characters have more wounds, but are much easier to wound in turn.
• Monsters get less powerful the more damage they take, so doing some damage, but not killing them is still useful
• Nothing is invulnerable
• No such thing as an all-comer list required as lists are built as you deploy. This is like draft, but with armies.

Cons:

• Fluff is a bit high fantasy for my taste, but this is to appeal to the younger gamer
• Models block other models. This is annoying as it slows the game down as i have to figure out how i move tightly packed groups of guys
• I miss list building

Regarding points

At first i thought that points were required, but then after discussions i have come to the conclusion that:

• The purpose of points is give an indication of the power level of various models to a completely new player.
• Older players know the approximate power value of each model with out the aid of points
• Any points that are assigned do not take into account powerful combos
• Ultimately the points will be unbalanced.
• When list building competitively, players look to find the unbalanced points assignments and exploit them to gain advantage during play in the form of a more powerful list for fewer points
• Points therefore become a justification for bringing a list which is obviously more powerful than the opposing one whilst the points state that it is fair.
• The upshot of this is that after all the numbers have been crunched, players will only deem a small subset of models as "competitive", and the rest of the range will never be used. The is especially the case when crafting an all comers list.

The new approach of army balance is based on drafting your army from your collection during deployment. This allows for a much greater range of models to see play, as no all comer lists are required. For non-competitive play it also means that balance, if you wish it, can be obtained by both players placing models until they think the armies are equal. This does require an players to act like gentlemen, but if we can't do that with our friends, then we are doomed.



Ray

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

There really are some tactics.

There is no doubt that some tactics are present, but nowhere near the level found in 8th edition

but if you refuse to try it you really cant give a review

That's not true. Anyone with any bit of experience can read and analyze a set of rules to make an informed judgement. I think this gets thrown around too frequently. Does a person need to eat a piece of dog poo to know that they don't like it?

I'we seen enough batle reports to say that i dont like it, to simplistic, to say its fun or that there is some chalenge about it....

the reason i aint trying it at all is that i dont want to lose that amount of time on figuring out how to play a balanced game...I dont have the time to be anybodys beta tester in a game i dont really like...

Agreed.

Living rulebooks, e-publishing, and internet FTW.

FTW in the viewpoint of other competing game companies!

 

[pendrake]

You make some interesting observations...

... The new approach of army balance is based on drafting your army from your collection during deployment ...

This only works if I have brought my entire collection with me? —BUT THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN— Bringing 2200 points of troops is a feasible thing, bringing every model I own that I might want to use, depending on what the other guy deploys, not realistic.

Unless some of my models can be fold-up, card-stock cut-outs...

 

[Ixt]

You make some interesting observations...

This only works if I have brought my entire collection with me? —BUT THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN— Bringing 2200 points of troops is a feasible thing, bringing every model I own that I might want to use, depending on what the other guy deploys, not realistic.

Unless some of my models can be fold-up, card-stock cut-outs...

In your example, wouldn't everybody with '2200' points bring '2200' points of models that synergize (since it's feasible)? If they play less than '2200 points,' isn't that essentially a draft?

"I brought 400 wounds of models out of my 1200 wounds of models, so did he... We don't have much time so we're probably playing with 150 wounds... this one may be better than that one, given the circumstances..."
"Brought 200 wounds out of my 500 wounds of models, only have time to play with 80 wounds..." etc

While you could throw all the models that you have with you on the board, you probably won't for the same reason that you didn't spend unnecessary points on magic items/command/filler in 8th, right? Plus, there's the fact that a Player A with many models will inevitably encounter a player B with fewer models. Player A will probably do the decency of drafting some models onto the board over others, rather than outnumbering player B if player B doesn't want to do sudden death, so on and so forth.

 

[serbianwolf]

eithere they or the community WILL do a comp, or a points system, wthout it the game is unplayable, why? well first of all i dont know all other armies, atleast not all of their models and their items and their abilities, and their combos...

since I CAN NOT be objective in determening whetere what i bring to the table is aproximatly the same strenght as my opponents, there is no way for me or a lot of other players to do a balanced game.... i can not just bring the ofificial army list and be sure hey this is OK, if I win i will have the feeling maybe I brought to much, if I loose bad then I will have the feeling my opponent did...that SUCKS

the mere lazines and sloppines of GW infuriates me and drives me toward staying in 8th, and looking forward to swecomp hammer....

 

[pendrake]

In your example, wouldn't everybody with '2200' points bring '2200' points of models that synergize (since it's feasible)? If they play less than '2200 points,' isn't that essentially a draft?

No.
What is likely, is that, I bring a mechanized brigade of steam tanks and attempt to recreate the Battle Of Kursk, medieval fantasy version.

Somebody else brings all Dragons and Bloodthirsters...

The OgrePlayer just keeps putting out those chariot cannon things.

Synergy is overrated.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

No.
What is likely, is that, I bring a mechanized brigade of steam tanks and attempt to recreate the Battle Of Kursk, medieval fantasy version.

Somebody else brings all Dragons and Bloodthirsters...

The OgrePlayer just keeps putting out those chariot cannon things.

But seriously, would that be fun?

 

[pendrake]

But seriously, would that be fun?

Kursk — Fantasy Style? Why not?

Ten Steam Tanks can represent the Wehrmacht and some number of those OgreCannonChariots can represent the Red Army's horde of T-34s...

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

Kursk — Fantasy Style? Why not?

Ten Steam Tanks can represent the Wehrmacht and some number of those OgreCannonChariots can represent the Red Army's horde of T-34s...

Maybe, but more than once? I for one would think it would be a little boring, but to each his own.