AoS Idea for magic / summoning

[Aginor]

Hey y'all!

Concerning magic, and especially summoning I had an idea. I call it Channeling for now (name might change)
It would work like this:

No change to the core rules or the rules of one, everything still applies. There is only one spell added, plus a small change in how summoning works.


Variant 1:

Every wizard knows the spell "Channeling"
Channeling has a casting value of 4. If it succeeds the wizard gets one channeling point.
Channeling requires to adjust to leylines of magic so the wizard may not move, or attack in this turn.
Roll a dice if there are no enemies within 6" of the wizard. On a 6 the wizard gets an additional channeling point.
On a roll of 11 or more the wizard gets one additional channeling point.

Wizards can use their channeling points in the following ways:
1. Let the magic flow through them. For each channeling point gathered add 1 to all casting and unbinding rolls. Does not spend the point.
2. Spend channeling points to get additional spells or additional unbinds in that round. (One spell or unbind per point, rules of one still apply!)
3. Summoning. When a casting roll for a summoning spell succeeds the wizard can choose to spend his channeling points instead of reinforcement points. For each 100 points block the unit is worth the wizard needs to spend one of his channeling points.

Examples for costs:
A unit of ten Skinks (80) or Zombies (60) would cost 1 channeling point
A unit of three Kroxigor (180) or three Hexwraiths (160) would cost 2 channeling points
A Bastiladon (300) or a unit of five Blood Knights (260) would cost 3 channeling points
A Dread Saurian (400) or a Terrorgheist (320) would cost 4 channeling points




Variant 2:
Same rules as above, but you don't spend the channeling points for summoning, you spend them to earn reinforcement points, which you spend normally. You earn 100 reinforcement points per channeling point.
The advantage would be that cou can spend those points better (A Spirit Host of three costs 120 points. In Variant 1 you would spend two points on it, that you could also have spent to summon a unit for 200 points)
Another advantage is that after the wizard that created them is dead another wizard (if you have one) can use the reinforcement points.

Thoughts about it:
- The casting value of 4 means it almost always succeeds, but that's ok. We need that roll mainly for unbinding and for the chance to get two points.
- It makes wizard tactics more interesting. They have more tactical options.
- Wizards that are in no position to cast a spell or just don't need/want to cast can spend one of their spells on channeling.
- Strong wizards like Nagash and Kroak can almost in every round choose to spend one of their spell slots to channel. I still have to do the math on those but I think it doesn't make them overpowered because they still have to cast their summons.
- Summoning works without points easier again, but it costs you time and movement
- Some wizards may have interesting and/or scary side effects with that. Imagine a Weirdknob Shaman. If his guys stay near him and he has two rounds to channel he might have a pretty high casting roll for his Gork spell.

What do y'all think? Easily exploitable? Too weak to be of use? Too strong? Too complex?

I think I might give it a try in my next game if my friend is OK with it.

 

[Bowser]

You have some great ideas here. But...
The summoning one though makes it too exploitable. A third turn treelord ancient/Drycha or A 4th turn Huskard on Stonehorn/Spirit of Durthu or a fifth turn frostlors on Stonehorn would be game changing and may make you change your mind with this one. There are definitely some good ideas here, just needs some playtesting and refinement. Keep at it though, you're definitely on to something.

 

[Aginor]

Thanks!
Maybe I could change two things for starters:

1. Limit the buff to +1 or +2 max a long as you have any channeling points, perhaps like this:
- 1 point: +1 on casts
- 2 points: +1 on cast
- 3 points: +2 on cast
- 4 points: +2 on cast

2. Maximum number of channeling points you can have is 4.

 

[Crowsfoot]

What about if you don't cast a spell you get to cast more.

For example,

Your wizard does not cast a spell in round 1 and 2 but in round 3 he can cast 3 spells if he has enough points.

 

[Aginor]

I wanted to imply that but you are right, I phrased it wrongly. I edited it.

 

[pendrake]

What about moving the ley lines for the purpose of disrupting the opposition's chances of summoning?

(Channeling helps send summoned troops into the next Parrish.)

Be kinda cool if a pair of standing stones appeared on the table...marking the line.

 

[Canas]

The bonusses it gives like replacing the cost for summoning, improving casting rolls, or giving acces to an extra spell are good ideas. However, this seems like it'd require you to either have a load of wizards, or 1 extremely powerfull wizards (nagash..) so you can spend several casts building up points. Also, not allowing them to move or attack may be too restrictive.

How about the following:


1) Channeling points go in a global pool. This means that if wizard one channels, wizard two can use the points. The pool is army specific, so not shared with potential allies.

2) The maximum of the pool is the amount of spells you can normally cast in a single turn. E.g. if you have 1 starpriest the maximum is 1. If you have a starpriest and croak it's 5.

2) Channeling can only be done if there is no enemy within 3" (so melee range..)

3) Channeling can only be used as the first spell you cast with that wizard this turn

4) After casting channeling that wizard cannot cast spells until his next turn

5) Channeling generates half of your spells as casting points rounded up (kroak generates 2, a starpriest 1). One extra on a 11+

6) Channeling points have the following effects:

1. Casting and unbind rolls get + 1 for every 2 channeling points up to a maximum of 3, this bonus does not count for "channeling" or "unchanneling" (both cast and unbind rolls)
2. For every 2 channeling point you can cast 1 additional spell per turn
3. Channeling points can be turned in to generate reinforcement points. 1 channel point = 50 points. Channel points can only be turned into reinforcement points at the time of a succesfull summon.
4. If a wizard dies and you lose any points above your current maximum.
5. For every 2 points you have you can cast a spell a second time in the same turn, each succesive cast reduces the casting roll by -2 (so cast 1 is normal, cast 2 has -2, cast 3 -4 and so on).
6. For every 3 points you have 1 wizard in your army may attempt to learn a spell known by another allied wizard in your army. This counts as casting a spell, it's succesfull at the normal casting value for the spell, but it suffers a handicap of -2 + -1 for every 3" the wizards are apart. This counts as both wizards casting a spell as they need to talk/telepath/send smokesignals to one another and are busy.

7) "Unchanneling" : any unit that can unbind spells (be it a wizard or otherwise) can instead of unbinding that turn attempt to disrupt the build up resevoir of power that the opposing wizards have. A target wizard needs to be within 12" of the unchanneler. Roll 2D6, on a 9+ it succeeds. If succesfull you lose 1D3/5 points worth of points (so if I have 15 points I lose 3D3 points). "Unchanneling" can be unbound like a regular spell.


This allows your opponent to disrupt your resevoir of points, which should help prevent someone from summoning a carnosaur on top of you in the last turn. It allows the opponent to withle away the points by killing the minor wizards, while also giving the minor wizards a better impact because the global pool means their spellcast isn't immeadiatly lost. It also solves some of the issues with the rule of one as your powerfull wizard can potentially cast 1 of his underling's spells and it allows for succesive casts, but prevents arcane bolt spam.

Also since points can only be turned into reinforcements on a succesfull summon you can't effectivly stockpile them without risking your opponent unchanneling your entire pile of channelpoints.

Another thing I'm thinking about is allowing a wizard use points to cast spells. E.g. "Consume a point, your casting roll is now a guaranteed 12" or just adding in other spells that can only be cast by consuming points. But that might be a bit much to do all in one go.

 

[Canas]

After thinking about it, I think that the channeling might be a bit complex, or at least it wouldn't fix the underlying issues with the core of the magic system. I've made up some new stuff and put it in http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/magic-ideas.19140/ go have a look.

Though I might still add something like the channeling at a later point the idea itself is fairly solid

 

[Aginor]

Well, to be honest I didn't really expect it to work in many cases anyway, mainly because I just know too little about the game yet, still reading into several of the armies to get to know them and their capabilities.

 

[Canas]

The basic idea is by no means bad, channeling can work brilliantly for setting up a big spell like summoning a carnosaur. But magic has several underlying issues like a lack of variaty, the rule of 1 screwing approaches with multiple wizards & the general lack of power in magic (when compared to abilities etc.) make it underwhelming. I think those need to be fixed first before something like channeling could be introduced