8th Ed. I am Loving End Times Magic

[Markhaus]

4d6 with no cap means channeling 3 extra power dice when you rolled 12 doesn't mean wasted dice.
Lore master of High Magic means I get to reroll that miscast (tired of losing my 500+ slann to the warp), add to that throne of vines from lore of life (after successful cast of any high magic) and I am only slightly afraid of killing my own unit by casting a spell.
The rolling d6 to cast or dispel? Great for a lvl 4 caster with 3 channels on his fulcrum and 8-64 spells to choose from. Heck, I even take a scroll, cube and rerolling failed dispel to make sure no saurus are lost to cheesey Initiative killing spells.
I just won against chaos warriors and empire. Two armies I normally have trouble with, and it actually felt like an even match!

It's a shame the entire group at my game store hate it and no one will play it anymore.

 

[KingCheops]

Yeah Khaine magic actually makes Lizards feel correct. Like it was the missing piece to make our army work. It'd be nice to have clarification on the arcane configuration.

 

[Scalenex]

A thought recently occured to me that our lack of new units, team ups, or combined profile special characters may not be an oversight.

Maybe someone thought "Well, LM get enough with ET magic, they don't need more"

Unfortunately, while my meta is okay with Undead Legions, Legions of Chaos, and combined Elf hosts, they don't like ET magic.

 

[Rettile]

combined elfs are probably the most overpowered thing ever seen in 8th edition, so i don't see the problem with khaine magic

Anyway i'm enjoying khaine magic aswell: with the old book i used to field a loremaster life or light slann and evey time i had to choose between these two lores, with the new book i started playing high magic because life and light with no loremaster option didn't satisfy me... now i can have both full life and light lores in the same battle and other 6 lores aswell! Or high magic and then new lores during the game, which is less safe but even more powerful. I just hope khaine magic stays... ehm... and slanns too obviously

 

[SilverFaith]

Unfortunately, while my meta is okay with Undead Legions, Legions of Chaos, and combined Elf hosts, they don't like ET magic.

If they take the elf host armies, they HAVE to use the khaine magic rules.

It's completely non-negotiable. The rules as written couldn't be more clear in this regard. You can't take the completely broken scenario rules for the elves, and then disregard the magic rules that comes with them. That's like us taking the red host, but excluding the ark of sotek bastiladons because we don't like the unit.

What's more, the Khaine rules also benefit the elves a whole lot, so I'm not sure what their issue is.

 

[Sleboda]

They gave in to internet fear mongering, is what happened.

 

[Padre]

If I read the rules correctly, you don't get Loremaster on the lores you swap to. That benefit only applies when you choose your spells at the beginning of the game. Otherwise, results 10-12 on the miscast table are kind of pointless.

Padre

 

[Markhaus]

It doesn't say anything about the beginning of the game, just that the wizard knows all the spells of any Lores of Magic he knows. They might have meant at the beginning, but they certainly do not say or even imply it.

Honestly it seems a bit slap dash since Chaos now almost always gains a new unit (12+). They didn't really think that through.

 

[KingCheops]

If I read the rules correctly, you don't get Loremaster on the lores you swap to. That benefit only applies when you choose your spells at the beginning of the game. Otherwise, results 10-12 on the miscast table are kind of pointless.

Padre

You wouldn't get Loremaster on lores you switch to but you would get all the spells when you swap to them with High Magic. Note that Khaine says "when you generate spells" and our lore attribute says "generate a spell from the new lore" so we are in fact generating spells.

What's not entirely clear is when you use Telepathic Confabulation. In that case you are specifically swapping a spell and not generating new spells. However, things get muddied up since some units that do not generate spells (Loremaster, Sisters of Thorn, Warlocks, WD Slann) do in fact get all the spells from the lore.

 

[Xlanax_lot]

If I read the rules correctly, you don't get Loremaster on the lores you swap to. That benefit only applies when you choose your spells at the beginning of the game. Otherwise, results 10-12 on the miscast table are kind of pointless.

Padre

You wouldn't get Loremaster on lores you switch to but you would get all the spells when you swap to them with High Magic. Note that Khaine says "when you generate spells" and our lore attribute says "generate a spell from the new lore" so we are in fact generating spells.

What's not entirely clear is when you use Telepathic Confabulation. In that case you are specifically swapping a spell and not generating new spells. However, things get muddied up since some units that do not generate spells (Loremaster, Sisters of Thorn, Warlocks, WD Slann) do in fact get all the spells from the lore.

What would you say it happens when your slann changes the spell from high magic? Does he still know all spells from high magic or does he loses that particular spell in exchange for the other lore?

 

[KingCheops]

What would you say it happens when your slann changes the spell from high magic? Does he still know all spells from high magic or does he loses that particular spell in exchange for the other lore?

No he loses that particular spell. Our Lore Attribute actually specifically says what happens when you choose to generate from High Magic. This leads me to believe that Khaine is the magic system going forward given the rumors that our book was designed with 9th in mind.

You would forget that spell until you drop a spell for High Magic. So for instance on turn 1 I successfully cast Apotheosis, Hand of Glory, Soul Quench, and Walk Between Worlds. I can now drop all 4 spells for other lores. If I drop the last one on High Magic then I regain all the High Magic spells in essence getting 3 new lores. If I successfully cast Hand of Glory and that's it and drop it for say Death then I would no longer have Hand of Glory. If next turn I successfully cast Apotheosis I could drop it for High Magic thus gaining Apotheosis and Hand of Glory.

 

[Rettile]

if khaine magic stays - and slanns aswell - LM will have a huge buff. Even more if the casting reroll for loremaster will work on the roll for the max number of dice usable for a spell (note that this is just wishlisting)

 

[Markhaus]

Opinion Question:
Which do you think is better, spending 30 points for all the lores in the book, or spending 35 for high magic and switching to the lores piece by piece?

I have only done high magic and loved the "oh your Empire? I switch to metal so next round I can pummel your steam tank" aspect, but I can also see how starting with access to all the lores would make one less round to wait before smashing the stank.

 

[Scalenex]

Opinion Question:
Which do you think is better, spending 30 points for all the lores in the book, or spending 35 for high magic and switching to the lores piece by piece?

I believe Lore Master High Magic is the king of End Times Magic because of re-rollable Deadlock. You only need about four dice on your d6 roll to pull it off. That gives you about a 50% chance to viciously nerf the main enemy caster every round.

Also it lets me get the Lore Undeath which I have an unhealthy fascination with.

 

[KingCheops]

Not even Deadlock necessarily. Being able to safely 1 dice Dispel Magic is very nice. Khaine magic devolves into Magic Missile butchery and DIY Deathstars. Dispel Magic gives us the only defense against DIY Deathstars. On top of that High Magic gives us one of the best magic missiles in the game, a good buff that isn't otherwise available, extra movement, easy healing for our monsters, and the ability to choose whatever lore we need (good when you play in an environment with set magic selection).

With Loremaster re-rolls we have 4 spells that can be cast on 1 dice with 8/9 chance of success. We have a further spell that can be 1 diced with a 3/4 chance of success. Even Fiery Convocation is possible for us on 4-5 dice instead of having to 6 dice it. And then Deadlock on top of that.

Skinks are crazy good flankers with Hand of Glory and Apotheosis. Fear and extra BS makes it hard for many flankers to hit us and makes us hit them really well. Skink Cohorts packed with cheap, naked Chiefs suddenly look good compared to Saurus as you can quickly augment them up to the same level or beyond and have excellent shooting as well (how's a stand and shoot with BS 6 sound and then a fear test?).

 

[Xlanax_lot]

What would you say it happens when your slann changes the spell from high magic? Does he still know all spells from high magic or does he loses that particular spell in exchange for the other lore?

No he loses that particular spell. Our Lore Attribute actually specifically says what happens when you choose to generate from High Magic. This leads me to believe that Khaine is the magic system going forward given the rumors that our book was designed with 9th in mind.

You would forget that spell until you drop a spell for High Magic. So for instance on turn 1 I successfully cast Apotheosis, Hand of Glory, Soul Quench, and Walk Between Worlds. I can now drop all 4 spells for other lores. If I drop the last one on High Magic then I regain all the High Magic spells in essence getting 3 new lores. If I successfully cast Hand of Glory and that's it and drop it for say Death then I would no longer have Hand of Glory. If next turn I successfully cast Apotheosis I could drop it for High Magic thus gaining Apotheosis and Hand of Glory.

Hey! Thanks! This clears it up! I apreciate it

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

They gave in to internet fear mongering, is what happened.

Or they tried Khaine magic and simply did not enjoy it.

 

[sombrastewart]

Our group are all big fans of Khaine magic, but none more than me. We like it because the six dice death templates aren't a sure thing this way, no more losing concentration and things like that.

But having a WD Slann is certainly great fun for me. My games usually have a heavy, heavy magic influence in comparison to my friends'.