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7th Ed. how?

Revered_Guardian
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Revered_Guardian

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How do we lizardmen effectively deal with 2 warlocks and a ratling gun that kill over 3 times their points in a single game?

to them I lost

15 saurus
10TG
and 5 cold ones(ALL RATLING!!!)

I failed my panic test for saurus..... but in the end of this game all I had was my cold one general. alive with a single wound.

I know it was just lucky rolling (and unlucky for me) but is there any way I could possibly counter this?
 
Revered_Guardian said:
How do we lizardmen effectively deal with 2 warlocks and a ratling gun that kill over 3 times their points in a single game?

to them I lost

15 saurus
10TG
and 5 cold ones(ALL RATLING!!!)

I failed my panic test for saurus..... but in the end of this game all I had was my cold one general. alive with a single wound.

I know it was just lucky rolling (and unlucky for me) but is there any way I could possibly counter this?
Click to expand...

Well, the new skaven book is coming soon, so it might be a non-issue... I can't remember if ratling guns auto-hit, but I do remember they are beyond nasty. The engineers and their lightning cannons I believe MUST FLEE if you charge them, so send some units of skinks or charge them off with flyers. The ratlings are the real problem... I would skink screen the first turn as best you can then fly over with Terradons and drop rocks on them. It should put a hurt on the "cheesy" bastards.
 
well, first off, he isnt that cheesy, he builds mostly a horde list, and I did screen. I have no flyers, as i would have to order them....only the warplightning cannon HAS to flee.....and he was smart enough not to use WL on my vet with the mirror shield....
 
Cheesy was in reference to the ratling crews, and it was supposed to be a pun (get it, rats, cheese..?)

Hmm, no flyers. Do you run an EotG for the ward save?

I guess skinks are your best bet, probably of the skirmishing variety. If you play with a lot of terrain, definitely invest in some chameleon skinks to get to those targets quicker. They get that nice -2 to be hit by missile attacks, so that should help them survive.
 
Thats the problem, even the EOTG couldn't help much, and we played with NO terrain (as we havent bought any yet)

also, ratling guns sadly dont use BS so the chameleon rule and skirmishing doesn't really help...
 
Revered_Guardian said:
Thats the problem, even the EOTG couldn't help much, and we played with NO terrain (as we havent bought any yet)

also, ratling guns sadly dont use BS so the chameleon rule and skirmishing doesn't really help...
Click to expand...

Ah, I thought that might be the case. Those guys are rough. Chameleons will still be helpful for their ability to get behind enemy lines quicker.
 
The ratling guns should be NO problem at all. The can't move and shoot, so you should get at least one round of shooting at them with skinks with blowpipes. You can individually target them as well as they are safe like characters, but that offers no protection any more.

The engineer, is a different problem. You may want to have a unit just suicide into the engineer to kill it. Sure the unit will die, but throw all of your attacks at the engineer and kill him and he is out of the way. Terradons are great at this.

The other thing to remember with the engineer is that if he ever rolls a "1" for the number of hits the "1" is resolved against the engineer.
 
I think the problem was he just had so many units, I couldnt get my skinks around them. Plus, the ratling did its job because when I went towards its unit, he shuffled it backwards and outta charge range (wish I had gotten 1 more on that stupid totem....I rolled a 1...)

Both of his engineers wounded themselves, but only 1nce each.....and my priest didn't get a single offensive spell, which didnt help much as I could have fried the ratling gun with 1 thunderbolt....
 
Yeah ratling guns are pretty powerful and usually well hidden.. What I do is threaten them from a distance with something fast (you are really mising out not fielding terradons) which makes my opponent keep the gun between two units so it can't be charged, this restricts its LoS to basically directly in front. Rolling thunderbolt next time would help, or get your engine in close and throw out burning alignment before he has a chance to shoot with it. Depending on how game your opponent is with the dice rolling you wil quite often see disastrous misfires from the ratling guns too and won't have to deal with them at all.

The engineer, deal with it like any other mage. Try to stop the most potent spells that he casts even though there are quite a few really nasty ones, and let ones that you don't think will do too much damage through. Also, I wouldn't quite call a charge on him suicide. Depends what you charge with, skaven units are usually pretty weak. They certainly won't stand up to saurus or cold ones or a steg. A fast hunting character is probably the best go there though.
 
I think you shouldn't get your skinks around his units, but in between them.
This way you can easily shoot, he cannot see you and therefore cannot charge. His rattling guns will probably be there too, so threaten with multiple units (Terries!, skinks, more skinks, fast character) and strike with 1.
What is your magic defence/offence? A Slann could easily get rid of the machines, and maybe even the mages.
Scarveteran on Cold one, shield of the mirrored pool, Light armour (maybe on a horned one). And get him chasing mages! The stupid thing is: they can hide in the back of their units, so again: use your support units (skinks, {again terradons...}, more skinks, fast characters, salamanders, razordons) to threaten this guy multiple times. Get something behind his lines (skirmishing skinks can fit through gaps neatly) and sui-charge. They're a pain anyway :P

I think the most important part is getting rid of the rattlings, and this is more easy than killing the mages. So, brace for magic and kill his shooting. Then go for flanks (even more so with Skaven, naturally :) )
Hope this helps,

The Hunted
 
It was a 1500 point game, I will post my entire list here if you wish but I had an EOTG, lvl 2 skink priest on top, and a dispell scroll +diadem of power,

I managed to stave off most of the 2 warlocks until he had an untimely death to plague censers

I had a fast character (cold ones) BUT if I had rolled more than a 1 on the totem, I would have hit the clanrat unit, and hit it hard (containing warlock and chieftan)

Also note, that my saurus failed their 1st panic test...and this left my 3 units of skinks all alone on one side, they did good, killing a large unt of giant rats, and basically luring ratogres and night runners out of the game, although the ninja rats were fast enough to make it back on the 2nd last turn, and thwart my only chance at killing the RO's (3 remaining-2 wounds on 1, all i Had was my general at the time, who was wounded already but ended up killing the NR's atleast)

maybe I should order terradons....
 
If you could, I'd like to take a look at your list :)

Still, what I said earliers counts. Don't get around him, get in between. And the Cold ones part well...2 things about that:
1. It was just bad luck that got the better of you
2. (don't mean to be harsh): you shouldn't rely on luck or statistics....*

* explanation for part 2: my 12 spearmen, and 2 scarveterans could Not handle 6 Phoenix guard...? I mean, that's just not possible. Before this my other unit of 12 spearmen panicked when 3 remaining skinks failed their panic test (On general's leadership!)....I mean, the skinks were set up bad and the saurus paid for it. Therefore my whole plan failed pretty much.l So, while i know that my skinks shouldn't panic on Ld 8 Cold-blood, NOR should my saurus. I should NOT rely on them not doing it...Set-up your units carefully and be prepared for stuff that you did not plan for. A good plan is a flexible one!

i'll get back to you when i get the chance to take a view on the list you brought :)
Hope this helps,

The Hunted
 
ok, heres da list

scarvet-cold one, shield of mirrored pool, lght armr, burning blade

EOTG priest, level 2 w diadem and dispell scroll

10TG full command w war banner

5 cold ones w musician and totem

15 saurus- musician and champion

3x 10 skink skirmishers

10 skinks ranked

1498 pts
 
What did you use for killing the rattlings?
I´d get into CC ASAP, just to threaten his mages and if he really wants to kill you with magic he has to blast through his own troops as well. Your Scar-vet is well equipped to deal with MM, so he should only fear rattlings.
Get those skinks chasing rattlings or suicharge the mage! :P
Really, the list is solid; I guess bad luck got the better of you for the most part...

The Hunted
 
I guess the problem was he kept shuffling his units backwards JUST out of charge range......it sucked, and I have a question about turning, can you turn move back and then turn again...is it half your remaining move or half your total move...
 
Yes, turning always costs 1/4 of your normal move.

So sarus (Mv4) who perform a single turn now have 3 inches left to move. Remember that this does not change how ranks or files look, it simply causes each individual model to turn. A common tactic is to see infantry strafe to the left or right by 2" (turn for 1/4 your move, march 'forwards' 2", turn back for 1/4 your move again).
 
BRB said:
A unit is allowed to turn several times during its move unless it is charging or marching, in which case it cannot turn at all, but can only wheel.
Click to expand...
 
"(turn for 1/4 your move, march 'forwards' 2", turn back for 1/4 your move again)"

I think he was referring to this quote Barotok, but by the fact you said 2" and not 4" I can see you meant "move" and not "march". I think the game might become even more movement oriented if they lifted this restriction, and I don't see why a well trained regiment of troops wouldn't be able to turn, march, and turn again.

Maybe they could add this ability to the unit if it has a unit champion, and he could serve as the "drill seargent" for lack of a better term? Here's to hoping for 8th edition! That might boost up the cost of champions though...
 
now I see why I thought it suspicious when he used march to turn, move 5 inches back, and turn around again!
 
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