8th Ed. How to win over WoC

[novatomato]

Hellcannons aren't Warmachines unfortunately. They are classified as Monster and Handlers

 

[ollie]

Okey the game is set to wednesday, the list ill be bringing is this one:

Lords

Slann mage priest 2x disciplines (mystery & rumination), razor standard (armor piercing). Battle standard bearer. Cupped hands of the old ones

Heroes

None

Special

20x Temple guard + revered guardian (bane head), musician, standard bearer banner of eternal flame
Stegadon

Core

18x Saurus warriors + champion standard bearer, spears
18x Saurus warriors standard bearer
12x Skinks

Rare

Salamander hunting pack extra handler
Salamander hunting pack extra handler
Ancient stegadon

 

[Gor-rok]

Chameleon skinks are not likely to make worth their points i think, the hellcannon will most likely survive and just kill them in a round of combat.

Don't underestimate the chameleons. Even if they don't kill it outright, it'll have to spend one turn not shooting in order to face them if you deploy them well, and take another turn to attack them- that's at least two turns the rest of your army isn't getting blasted.

Either that, or the hellcannon ignores them in order to fire, and they chip away at its wounds. Enough poison shots will eventually do it in.

 

[Arli]

put 2 units of 6 or 7 on it and he has to deal with each one seperately. By the time he gets done with them, you should be in combat with the rest of his army.

 

[BEEGfrog]

Lets go through the list line by line and refer back to points you made earlier

Slann mage priest 2x disciplines (mystery & rumination), razor standard (armor piercing). Battle standard bearer. Cupped hands of the old ones You are being crippled by big spells why no Becalming Cogitation?

Heros none Have you considered an EoTG or 2 instead of your other steggies, the EotG fights better than a standard steggie and the Burning alignment is hated by WoC as it ignores armour saves. Burning alignment also works in combat, auto hits and can hit multiple units. A chief could also take the warspear and double impact hits, but this isn't as good in 8th

Special
20x Temple guard + revered guardian (bane head), musician, standard bearer banner of eternal flame Is a bit on the small side, if you go 5 wide you don't count a 5th rank, while this won't help you as the TG is stubborn with slann it may negate the other side's steadfast. If 6 wide you start losing rank bonus with first casualty. How effective has the bane head on the champ actually been for you? How effective is the flaming banner against WoC, chaos armour isn't the most flammable stuff in the world, war banner or extra leadership are likely to be more effective.

Stegadon Ancient better than standard steggie, hero mounts are probably even better

Core
18x Saurus warriors + champion standard bearer, spears A bit on the small side again
18x Saurus warriors standard bearer Again, a bit on the small side again
12x Skinks

Rare

Salamander hunting pack extra handler Only two salamanders? The extra armour penetration is great agaist WoC, need more!
Salamander hunting pack extra handler
Ancient stegadon See above on advantages of steggies as hero

You need to get a plan, work out what match ups are an advantage to you and then seek to get those advantages. With a slann you shouldn't be outmatched in magic. I mentioned becalming cogitation above, seriously think about it. Also remember the mechanism for cupped hands means that you determine the effect before you decide to hand over the miscast so he has to use infernal puppet before you make the decision!

 

[ollie]

Slann mage priest 2x disciplines (mystery & rumination), razor standard (armor piercing). Battle standard bearer. Cupped hands of the old ones You are being crippled by big spells why no Becalming Cogitation?

Fair enough, thought about getting it for a while. Maybe use plaque of tepok instead of mystery and change to cognition. Should come in real handy. Our houserules says we can use several arcane items so, yay xD.

Special
20x Temple guard + revered guardian (bane head), musician, standard bearer banner of eternal flame Is a bit on the small side, if you go 5 wide you don't count a 5th rank, while this won't help you as the TG is stubborn with slann it may negate the other side's steadfast. If 6 wide you start losing rank bonus with first casualty. How effective has the bane head on the champ actually been for you? How effective is the flaming banner against WoC, chaos armour isn't the most flammable stuff in the world, war banner or extra leadership are likely to be more effective.

Hmm the bane head thing is useless i agree, haha it was just to spend the points on something. Going 6 wide is just to get an additional 3 attacks, 17 instead of 14 could make a difference i think. The thing is he uses festus in a chaos warriors regiment. Razor standard + flaming standard and strength 5 negates his chaos armor and regeneration. Salamanders also eats both his armor and regeneration. So i will focus them on his festus regiment. War banner is nice tho.

Stegadon Ancient better than standard steggie, hero mounts are probably even better

Totally agree but in order to get a hero i have to drop this steg to afford it, since we play 2000p. Might drop this steg to put a chief on the ancient steg and buy a priest on foot. Hmm i could buy an engine of the gods and a scar veteran to put in the TG or saurus block, this option is tempting.

Salamander hunting pack extra handler Only two salamanders? The extra armour penetration is great agaist WoC, need more!

6 salamanders would rock. But i just have two unfortunately. Basically i am fielding every model i have in this list. My saurus regiments should be bigger yeah, especially since he uses flails on marauders and i use spears.

You need to get a plan, work out what match ups are an advantage to you and then seek to get those advantages. With a slann you shouldn't be outmatched in magic. I mentioned becalming cogitation above, seriously think about it. Also remember the mechanism for cupped hands means that you determine the effect before you decide to hand over the miscast so he has to use infernal puppet before you make the decision!

Yeah cognition is a given one from now on. True about the cupped hands, just don't know how to convince him that the rules are like that. Gotta check the lizardmen faq and print it. I think i have been a bit unlucky with the dice rolls in magic, hopefully it will go a lot better today.

My plan will be to sit back with the slann and protect his TG block. Since he has gone after it and destroyed it successfully several times, my bet is that he will do it again. Move everything else forward, get charges in with the stegadons and use them together with a saurus block each. Use cognition on his sorcerer lord and pray to god i can dispel his infernal gateway. Its stupid but the plan is mainly to beat him at his own game, close combat. I guess that is a bit hard to do against WoC, dammit! But i might have a shoot if magic goes well for me.

Thanks for the feedback. Wish me luck! updates will come tonight/tomorrow morning.

 

[ollie]

Okey guys my new list is this one, i will fucking overwhelm his magic phase and get some casts of in my own =D. Not sure which lore i will be using, i think ill be using life.

Lords
Slann mage priest 2x disciplines (cognition & rumination), Battle standard bearer. Cupped hands of the old ones, plaque of tepok. Power scroll, bane head.

Heroes
Skink priest level 2, ancient stegadon, cube of darkness
Scar veteran enchanted shield, great weapon

Special
20x Temple guard standard bearer

Core
18x Saurus warriors + champion standard bearer, spears
18x Saurus warriors standard bearer
10x Skinks


Rare
Salamander hunting pack
Salamander hunting pack

 

[ollie]

I won! But it was a real close one. Can't remember enough to write a full report but i will try my best to give you somewhat of a picture.

His list:

Sorcerer lord
12x warriors with additional hand weapon

Festus
12x warriors with shield

5x warhounds

5x warhounds

7x knights

20x marauders

hellcannon



My deployment from left to right. The lore used by slann was shadow.

-------------------------------------------sally------------sally----------skinks-------------------
Priest on steg --- Slann + TG --- saurus warriors block1 --- saurus warriors block 2 ------

Start of the game:
First few turns we moved forward, i got some nice shots off with the sallies. Killing a couple of warriors and a handful of marauders. His 7 chaos knights charged my skinks who failed the panic test and fled through my saurus warriors which held. He pursued into my saurus warrior block and killed seven of mine while i killed a single knight. Due to steadfast i could fight him another round.

Magic:
His first two magic phases he failed to cast spells due to rolling a sixes and or low rolls in general, and here the becalming cognition saved my day. Really unlucky rolls to my favor. He knew i had cube of darkness and i would not have any nasty surprises like irresistible force spells due to cognition, so he mostly gave up the magic phase and i never got to use the cube of darkness.

Knights:
Basically his knights slaughtered my both saurus warrior blocks and the skinks in round 3-5. On the left flank i used power scroll and put enfeebling foe on his warriors with festus, their strength was reduced by 2. Miscast generated by powerscroll was transfered to his sorcerer lord which kills a couple of warriors. And then i charged my stegadon and Slann + TG block into his warrior + festus block. He needed 6s to wound me and i lost just a few while he got shredded to pieces by impact hits and hard hitting TG. So he lost combat and fled, i pursued and destroyed.

Units on my left flank pushed through while my right flank got massacred, the stegadon saved the day. After the knights had killed off everything i had in the right flank they went for the steg with EotG, which used burning alignment and thunderstomped them till they were dead.

In like turn 5 i charged the marauder block with a solo scar-veteran which had left the TG block. I challenged the chieftain which accepted. Chieftain rolls first and hits with all his attacks, and then rolls 3 sixes when wounding which instantly kills the scar-veteran when i failed all armor saves. MONSTER KILLLL!

After knights had died he charged the stegadon with dual wielding warriors containing his sorcerer lord. They failed combat miserably and got run over by the steg which burns a couple of marauders before the game finally ends after turn 6.

Game end, units left:

Mine:
Slann + 5x TG
Skink priest + ancient stegadon

Opponents:
Hellcannon
12x marauders

Most valuable units:
Skink priest with ancient stegadon, killed off about 860 points single handed.
Slann basically shut down my opponents entire magic phase and got a few spells off and transfered a miscast, mission accomplished.

Least valuable units:
Scar-veteran, if i ever use him again it will be with sword of the hornet. He got killed by a 13 point model ffs.
Saurus warrior regiments, they are not very good against knights/marauders, but can be useful against warriors depending on equipment.

 

[Benny6Toes]

Chameleon skinks are not likely to make worth their points i think, the hellcannon will most likely survive and just kill them in a round of combat.

Don't underestimate the chameleons. Even if they don't kill it outright, it'll have to spend one turn not shooting in order to face them if you deploy them well, and take another turn to attack them- that's at least two turns the rest of your army isn't getting blasted.

unfortunately, that's not true. hellcannons, and i still have trouble buying into this, can pivot an fire in the same turn. true, the hellcannon would have to fire at chameleon the skinks, but it would only be one turn not two. wounding one is difficult, but since they also get a pretty good armor save...

 

[Bibamus]

uhhhm.... sorry to tell you but your list was ilegal

cpuued hands, plaque of tepok and power scroll are all arcane items, and you had 3 on 1 character, while you can have only 1 so....

 

[Gor-rok]

Chameleon skinks are not likely to make worth their points i think, the hellcannon will most likely survive and just kill them in a round of combat.

Don't underestimate the chameleons. Even if they don't kill it outright, it'll have to spend one turn not shooting in order to face them if you deploy them well, and take another turn to attack them- that's at least two turns the rest of your army isn't getting blasted.

unfortunately, that's not true. hellcannons, and i still have trouble buying into this, can pivot an fire in the same turn. true, the hellcannon would have to fire at chameleon the skinks, but it would only be one turn not two. wounding one is difficult, but since they also get a pretty good armor save...

Of course it can pivot and fire, but not pivot and then charge- killing the skinks in combat was the issue at hand. I'd think it would usually take just as long for it to get a hit on a small unit of camo skinks with the cannon (and if they get in close enough it would have to back up); either way, your big block of saurus or whatever isn't getting blasted.

 

[Benny6Toes]

Ahhh. I misunderstood your post. That last time I tried that, my opponent learned very quickly that my 10 chameleons weren't much of a concern. S3 against against a T6 unit with a decent armor save, 5 wounds, and 5+ ward save just didn't have him worried (even if a poison shot did hit); especially since he had two of them. Granted, I was rolling horribly...

 

[ollie]

uhhhm.... sorry to tell you but your list was ilegal

I know, but as i wrote earlier me and my friend just play with multiple arcane items for fun, as a house rule. Its legal in my house!

Although scrolls don't take up the arcane slot and occupy it, am i right or wrong?

 

[BEEGfrog]

uhhhm.... sorry to tell you but your list was ilegal

I know, but as i wrote earlier me and my friend just play with multiple arcane items for fun, as a house rule. Its legal in my house!

Although scrolls don't take up the arcane slot and occupy it, am i right or wrong?

Er...

... Wrong!

Multiple scrolls and power stones are one of the many things to disappear in 8th edition. You can only have one of each type of item including scrolls.

 

[ollie]

okok