7th Ed. How to use skinks?

[Enigma]

Hi everyone!

Still being the newbie I am I have to ask; how do you use the little ones?

As skirmishers to hide your tougher units behind? with blowpipes for extra shots, or with javelins to hit more easily?
Or do you take them as ranked units? once again, which weapons should they have? Kroxigors?

Any suggestions?

Cheers!
//Enigma

 

[Caneghem]

Each type of skink has its uses, and all are well worth their cost.

Skirmishers
Keep these in the minimum sized units of 10, so they maintain maximum flexibility and minimum cost. Good for screening, baiting, harassment, and taking down large targets with high toughness.

Ranked skinks
Units of 10 - Cheap as can be, with tons of uses. Skink movement of 6 means they can go pretty much wherever they are needed. If you just want more shooting, they can change up formation to 10 across and pump out some decently accurate and poisoned javelins.

Mixed cohorts - These have been hotly debated, but with few exceptions people have found the larger mixed units to be a fairly bad idea. If you make a huge unit with full command, it becomes worth killing for the enemy. They can simply hack apart the skinks and gain large amounts of combat resolution, then run down the rest and grab the banner.

My idea for mixed units is to take one kroxigor with 11 companion skinks. The best way to think of it is a detachment of skinks with a 55 point unit champion that does some good things for the unit...

+1 rank - Takes up the space of 4 skinks, makes the unit "bigger".

Fear - Since the kroxigor causes fear, he prevents the unit from autobreaking and can autobreak things below Unit Strength of 2. This sounds almost pointless, until you consider dwarf warmachine crews. Kill one dwarf and you have fear-outnumbering, which makes the otherwise stubborn dwarf crews to test on insane courage. Fear does lots of other little things, like not having to test before you charge, and making enemies roll for it if they have no fear immunity (hitting you back only on 6's). Terror causers only cause fear to your unit... it's a nice perk to have even at unit strength 3!

+1 Leadership - I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think the unit uses the highest leadership model for psychology tests. If so, the krox's Ld 7 is a good boost.

3 str 6 attacks - They're an ok boost, and might help you grab the odd kill or two.

So they're useful little guys our skinks, probably underestimated. You'll never be able to use them as main-line infantry, but as support units they are wonderful.

 

[Enigma]

@ the cohorts:
There seem to be a fairly big risk of losing the combat because of giving away to many easy kills, or am I wrong on this?
And should I ever take a full command? or just a musican? Brave? standard?

oh, and what about their weapons?

 

[hellbreaker]

I've been playing a couple of games actually, with skinks ofc...

I tried running a big 20 unit of skinks with 2 kroxies in. Let me tell you they ran away and died on the 2nd turn...

I tried 2 10 man units without kroxies... Don't EVER position them between saurus(don't ask) it actually brought 2 saurus units with them... On the 1st turn so they all died... But my opponent was kind and allowed me to have the saurus. ^^

I tried 2 10 units with 1 krox in and full command, these did a little better as they only didn't flee and actually gave a good beating in close combat.

I also tried a 20skink unit with 2 kroxies and full command... Multiply the amount of horrific by 2 with the first example...

I ran javelins and shields all the way...

So ye, 10man units with kroxies are probably the best for ranked units... I've yet to try the skirmishers thou, haven't meet any big giants or dragons yet thou...

Cheers!

 

[Enigma]

Sounds to me you should leave the fighting to the saurus and let the skinks be skirmishers...
But then again, havin a ranked unit able to move 6" a turn does sound interesting... even though they're fairly weak.

 

[teknistmajjan]

Hey there.

Will try to help out a bit.

In warhammer as it is right now movement is very very importent to your game, if you are not so experienced with warhammer most likely you will lose the games in this phase, not the combat, magic or shooting just the movement.

Why is it so then?, well it is all about evaluating every situation and calculate your odds in those situations.. moving around, screening and diverting.

Now this might just seem like nonsense bable but i do have a point.

Lizardmen do not have fast cavalry, something that is extrodinary good to redirect charges, bait out scary units och diverting people who try to outflank you etc.

Normally you use Fast cavalry or Eagles to do this but since we have neither we have to use a little slower unit but it is incredible cheap, Ranked skinks

For 50 points you get one of the best divert units in the game, not only with movement 6" they also have javelins, a 5+ save in close combat and are cold blooded.

I never play without atleast 3 of these units, they are very very good.


Skirmishers are just fantastic aswell, moving around herrassing him as much as possible, shooting down a few models each turn and just being a pain in the butt


Use both and adapt to it, very worth it.

 

[novatomato]

Just to clarify, we do have a fast cavalry unit. Terradons. They can also fly drop rocks, and benefit from the jungle poisons that all skink units have, they can even fly into and out of forests/woods/jungles. At 30 points each, minimum unit size of 3 they are fairly expensive and require lots of experience to work with to maximum efficiency (something I regret to say I do not have) they are terrors to enemy warmachines can bait frenzied units really easily, they draw out fanatics, the problem is they are exceptionally fragile.

 

[Dalkarius]

Now, now, my friends, I have a bit of my own experience to share about the skink mixed units. I took two units of 16 skinks with 2 kroxigors in each. One of them also had a skink Chief BSB in one of them. I kept them close so that they guarded one another's flanks, and I was fighting Ogres by the way. Now let me say, the unit with the BSB in it was charged by a unit of I think 3 Bull Ogres with a Butcher and the smaller version of a Tyrant. The Ogres lost one a Bull before the fight even started because the skinks shot them as I ran up so they wouldn't get impact hits, huzzah BSB with blowpipe. Anyways, the Skinks took some damage, but the ogres had trouble throwing attacks between the Kroxigors and Skinks. Anyways, when the skinks attacked back, they put 1 or 2 wounds in, the BSB added 1 more and the Kroxigors SMASHED the ogres with their 6 attacks. Combat res was well in my favour and the Skink/Krox units swept the board. Keep in mind the Ogres Butcher had cast the spell on them that gives them +1 Toughness too.

Now, in light of that post, I would say that these mixed units would not do very well against units with heavy combat res or units with lots of attacks. However, these mixed units are AMAZING flank guarders for the saurus, and can smash to little bits most regular rank-and-file troops. They can probably defeat most low level knights as well, but probably nothing like Chaos Knights, Dragon Princes (maybe), or stuff along those lines. Probably should avoid high armor save units too. Anyways, y'all get the point. In my honest opinion, they're worth it most of the time.

 

[Barotok]

Dalk makes some good points. I'll outline a few things that I've observed as well.

Skink Skirmishers: Great for knocking a rank off of infantry units with their blowpipes. Even if you get one kill on a five wide block, thats one less static combat resolution that you have to worry about when fighting that unit. Skirmishers are excellent march blockers and can be useful to divert charges, or help in out manuevering the enemy. They are also great for high toughness monsters (as has been mentioned) with their poisoned (autowound) attacks. I've seen skinks bring a bloodthirster down before (at which point the daemon player almost swept the skinks off the board in anger). Don't get them into close combat if you can help it.

Skink Cohorts: Fantastic bait unit. Small units of cohorts can draw a charge setting up charges for your killers that they normally wouldn't be able to make. They make great diversion units and also can be handy with the crossfire rule, since their movement is so high. For smaller units it seems like people are having the most success without command and using them the get in the enemy's way and draw a charge.

Larger units seem to do well with a Kroxigor in them. The larger units are still very debatable because of the toughness that they bring to the table. Anything that can put out a decent damage per round is going to have a field day with your skinks. If I run a big block of skinks, usually toss a Kroxigor (only 1 usually) into the unit with FC (standard, musician). The Kroxigor offers a better leadership. The standard and ranks provide some static combat resolution that hopefully helps to make up for the slaughter thats going on up on the front lines. Larger units have to be used more carefully because they're not as mobile and I think that I would only recommend them for experienced players who have a great understanding of the movement phase because of this. Large skink units are still speedy infantry and they're a bit too many points to be used as a first choice for charge diversions, they can run up the opponents weak side flank. I can see a unit with a Krox getting into the flank of a big block of infantry tipping the scales in your favor, perhaps. I'll be playtesting these setups with my group, soon hopefully.

 

[Enigma]

From reading all the posts here I get the impression that the skinks are very useful, both as skirmishers and as cohorts. I don't know if I'll put kroxigors in my units just yet, I have to play a few games before I can make up my mind on them.
I still get the impression that the skinks will give away to many kills to the enemy, but once again, I think I'll have to play some games first ^^
Thanks for all the helpful ideas so far guys, you've given me alot to think about

@Dalkarius
It was an interesting post in your sig. But it should be updated now as the slann and their choises of magic has changed a bit in the new ed.

 

[Barotok]

Most of the guys that I play with start by counting how many skinks I have fielded over anything else. Either I use really wierd lists, or skinks can amount to a decent threat, and can come up big with shooting or positioning when you least expect them to. I think they're a troop type that is often the most underestimated when it comes to lizardmen.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

As I have written in the army list section, I am sereously considering a practically all skink list.

1 unit of skinks has worked magic for me, in 1 game they killed a WE a skaven chieftan, and were a general nuisance.

Furthermore, they also have killed hierophants and stuff.

What I realized about the skinks is there advantage lies in maneoverability, not combat. 6m is not to be scoffed at, as these little buggers can run circles around enemies and this makes the ranked up skinks Ideal (and cheap) flankers.

 

[Sharp]

Since the new book came out i have been running a cohort of 16 with 2 krox and FC. And they are an awsome unit, one of the best in the new book.

Now if you think of this unit as a normal unit of rank and file troops your not useing it right. its a flanker, it moves fast and on the charge deals 7 WS2 S3 attacks backed up by 6 WS3 S6, thats nasty in anyones books, with 3 ranks, banner and hopefully out numbering they get a charge shoot reaction as well. Cause fear so some units may fail there fear charge and sit there, and don't care about charging fear causing units.

The skinks have a 5+ save in combat so vs S3 troops you get 1 in 3 back from wounds caused. fighting a unit of S3 troops with 1A you will win every time.

The other thing you can smash is WS2 troops like skeletons/gobos just skip any unit with a vampire in it and other nasty hitty chars.

Other thing that makes this unit viable is the fact that it can keep up with your slower strike units mainly steag's and krox's on there own. (faster units will be CO cav and old bloods on carnie) the combination of static res and hitting power with M6 means you can do some really nice combo charges vs M4 or M5 ranked units.

Things that arnt so great. they cant fight anything faster than they are with a good AS, any form of heavy knights will eat you. Hitty char's on flying mounts will also have a filed day.

They cant "turn" so they are limited when things start to get rather tight no 2 inich move to the left to open a gap ect. the krox cant fight if your flanked or rear charged as they only being in the front rank.

So you need to place the unit on the flanks not the middle and almost hold them back a turn before the main lines hit. to get the most out of them.

army's they arnt so usefull vs.

Chaos mortals, brets, High elfs and dark elfs. I'm not going to say wood elfs as there are units in that army book that they can deal with rather well.

 

[hellbreaker]

So you need to place the unit on the flanks not the middle and almost hold them back a turn before the main lines hit. to get the most out of them.

Yes they can... They can hit over 1 row of skinks... Meaning that if you position the kroxies on the flanks with 1 row of skinks between them and the flank of the unit you can get flanked but well... Only 1 krox can attack...

Cheers!

 

[Dumbledore]

Chaos mortals, brets, High elfs and dark elfs. I'm not going to say wood elfs as there are units in that army book that they can deal with rather well.

Big skink krox units are no use against chaos warriors but small cheap units of skirmishers or ranked units (or the 11skink 1 krox unit) are extremely useful against chaos and DE for sure. It's all about controlling combat with those two armies (chaos elite are few and need to pick their combats, DE are all about picking fights so that they break units on the charge, unless its a shooty army or something, if its a monster army skink poison is handy anyway) and skinks will help you deal with marauders etc otherwise a lizardmen army would have lost in the movement phase for sure.

 

[Sharp]

Chaos mortals, brets, High elfs and dark elfs. I'm not going to say wood elfs as there are units in that army book that they can deal with rather well.

Big skink krox units are no use against chaos warriors but small cheap units of skirmishers or ranked units (or the 11skink 1 krox unit) are extremely useful against chaos and DE for sure. It's all about controlling combat with those two armies (chaos elite are few and need to pick their combats, DE are all about picking fights so that they break units on the charge, unless its a shooty army or something, if its a monster army skink poison is handy anyway) and skinks will help you deal with marauders etc otherwise a lizardmen army would have lost in the movement phase for sure.

I'm a torny player i normal cant pick my army to deal with 1 player but have to build it to cope with all the army's

I agree with you that the larger cohorts can't take normal chaos warriors but they can take ranked murders and thats about it. But there are allot of other units in the lizardmen that makes it a very favorable match up vs. chaos mortals mainly skink skirmisher's since chaos don't have allot of shooting they find it hard to take out skirmish units and that give you domination in the movement phase. Dark elfs i would say will out shoot us and out combat us.

 

[Nosreme]

I'm glad to hear that others have had good luck with their skinks. Since they dropped the scout rule, I am finding them to be less and less effective. See before, when they scouted, they were setup clsoe to the opponent to start, and after moving once were usually in range needing 5s to hit from there on out. But with the new rules I am finding I need 6s and god forbid even 7s to hit (meaning I don't double tap and settle for 10 shots needing 6s - not nearly as effective!). Further, I sued to take a priest with them and then use the telepathy for the slann to zap folks. Well now that's out the window, too. Ugh! My whole battle plan has been scrapped by the new rules. So, yeah I'm not happy with the new skinks. I have been so disappointed with them in fact, that I am considering dropping them entirely for Saurus blocks (I know - blasphemy!), and possibly using Chameleons instead. I have not tried using ranked units of them because they are arguably some of the worst fighters in the game and being in a block doesn't help much. Even as flankers, you are pretty much just throwing free kills to your opponent often making up the 4 CR they lost to the flank to begin with (I've seen this more times than I can count with skeletons and zombies). The mixed unit seems to be an option, and I have yet to try it out, but it just seems the Krogs might be better off without them. But I would have to try it out myself to make an opinion. I hear mixed reviews on the mixed unit. It's love/hate apparently.

IMO the best use of them is still has a harrassing unit of skirmishers. They are just not as effective as they used to be (I'll admit they were nearly broken to the point of being OP in the old rules). But they are so cheap it's hard to say they are a waste of points!

I wish you better luck with them than I usuually have!

 

[Barotok]

Holy wall of bright green text crits you for 9450.
You Die.

Anything you could do about that color?

 

[Nosreme]

Not really, no. I try to click another color, but the evil side always clicks "bright green" cause its the most annoying. So sorry. Do you have shades?

 

[Aranigej]

After years (literally) of using a southlands all skink army, I am inclined to opt for skirmishers every time.

I find the cohorts tend to... how shall I put it... get in the way and do no real damage where I need it to be done. It is probably due to the fact that I am still getting to grips with manouvering rank and file troops but I can never seem to find any real use for the little guys in a ranked formation.

The skirmishers on the other hand... ahhh. Lizards of the match every time! I am trying to keep my skirmishing units to a minimum (2 or 3 units) and they always tend to perform rather well.

I find skirmishers useful for a number of tasks. First off, their speed and freedom of movement ensures that I can get them where I want them when I want them there. Granted that in the 7th edition skirmishers may no longer "run" if within 8" of the enemy (which was a great blow to my all skirmishing army) but they are still very useful... you just need to be more careful.

Secondly, they are great at protecting flanks and rears from fast moving nasties such as fast cavalry. This can be carried into effect in a number of ways. The most obvious is that if positioned correctly, you may block your more valuable troops from charges and position the skinks in such a way as to redirect them to your liking when/if you flee. They are also great at taking out fast cavalry with poisoned darts, as well as being a threat to such things as the dwarf gyrocopter (which you can charge and keep tied down for the rest of the game).

Thirdly, they block the opponents march moves. I find this to be of great value especially in the 3rd/4th turns when troops start taking positions for the charge. This, together with reason "one" above make skirmishers my most useful and versatile units in the game.

Another good use is the sniping of giants and other low armour big guys . My skinks have amassed a whole collection of giant,minotaur and ogre heads over the years.

Finally, if after performing in all/some of the above roles, 5 skinks in a unit are still alive at the end of turn 5, they can safely run towards uncontested quarters for those sweet extra VPs.