Tutorial How to sculpt lizardmen: All your base...

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Its very useful Rikard.
I am about to purchase my first use
of greenstuff and your shared knowledge
Has already formed (feel the irony?) my approach to the whole thing.

Getting tips from some able to sculpt such precious models
Is a privilege.
Please continue.

I'm always happy to help, when I was learning there was a bit of sculpting support around, but it was very hard to find and often required a combination of luck and persistence.


As a result I'm always happy to help with tips or even some basic layering, but if someone wants to build a complete model from scratch, then unless I've already done a stage by stage tut (like Oxyotl or the AOW saurus I did) it then gets a bit tricky, partly because of the lengthiness it takes for me to sculpt it and partly because it means a lot more to take in.

 

[Mr Phat]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

As a result I'm always happy to help with tips or even some basic layering, but if someone wants to build a complete model from scratch, then unless I've already done a stage by stage tut (like Oxyotl or the AOW saurus I did) it then gets a bit tricky, partly because of the lengthiness it takes for me to sculpt it and partly because it means a lot more to take in.

Im starting small.

- Adding features to my DE cold ones with Templeguards on them
- Converting some Khorne hounds into Razordons
- Adding detail to Characters

later on it mere more than willing to sit tight and use the time needed to learn from you.

 

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

As a result I'm always happy to help with tips or even some basic layering, but if someone wants to build a complete model from scratch, then unless I've already done a stage by stage tut (like Oxyotl or the AOW saurus I did) it then gets a bit tricky, partly because of the lengthiness it takes for me to sculpt it and partly because it means a lot more to take in.

Im starting small.

- Adding features to my DE cold ones with Templeguards on them
- Converting some Khorne hounds into Razordons
- Adding detail to Characters

later on it mere more than willing to sit tight and use the time needed to learn from you.

Interesting,

Well for conversion work I'd actually be happy if people post what they want to do (along with the bits) and ask for some help if they're stuck, if it's smallish stuff (which is mainly what conversion work is) then I should be able to do a quick tut and post it on here.

 

[Mr Phat]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

I think that would be great!

 

[Axolotyl]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Heh, the thing is, it's where to start! I think I'm gonna be looking at 3x kroxigors soon, I'm just not sure on how to go about making the armed urges fir them?

 

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Heh, the thing is, it's where to start! I think I'm gonna be looking at 3x kroxigors soon, I'm just not sure on how to go about making the armed urges fir them?

The what?

Do mean changing the poses or sculpting new arms?

 

[Axolotyl]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Apologies Rikard, I type on an IPad and often autocorrect gets the better of me, I meant armatures, not armed urges! I have a week off work coming up and I just want to sculpt

 

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Apologies Rikard, I type on an IPad and often autocorrect gets the better of me, I meant armatures, not armed urges! I have a week off work coming up and I just want to sculpt

Ah right, shouldn't be a problem, I was having a think yesterday about sticking the salamander armature in here soon too, as I've been thinking and the two would have very different anatomical structures (as I will explain in more detail at the time).


Shouldn't be hard at all, I may even make a Krox armature to help show what I'm getting at.

 

[Mr Phat]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

not to hijack the thread but

im having some problems with mixing the green stuff. Appearantly.

Yellow is softener, blue is hardener.
af 50/50 mix gives a solid material right?

I made a booboo on that to begin with and might have made it way too little blue to begin with.
I think it might be 70/30 or something .

questions:

1. If I can still shape the mixture I placed on my miniature, is it too late to add more blue to it, re-form it, and put it back on?

2. Will a poor mixture get harder over time or is the result after 24hours what you get?

3. Is there any chemicals or the like that one can use to remove attached greenstuff from a metal figure?

 

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Not going off topic at all, that was kind of what I had in mind for this thread, besides I think it helps a bit more if people get general help rather than just a block "Here's one I made earlier" tutorial.

Ok, well to begin with, yes you can alter the mix of yellow to blue, but do it in very small amounts, I don't tend to go much further than a 45:55 ratio, more than this and it won't harden properly (I.E. when you poke it with tools later on it will still mark). You can also leave it to sit for 30 minutes, it will harden slightly in this time anyway and makes your life a little easier.

Much of this is personal preference, armour for example might suit a higher BLUE mix as it will be firmer.
Yellow I use more of in things like spikes as it's more sticky, so very slightly wet fingers mean you can pull it more easily.

Questions:
1. If I can still shape the mixture I placed on my miniature, is it too late to add more blue to it, re-form it, and put it back on?

A: I'd personally remove it and add in the amount you need, get the ratios and mixing done right and check it before adding it to the model.

2. Will a poor mixture get harder over time or is the result after 24hours what you get?

A: As I said above, it depends on the ratio, usually though, high ratios (like 70:30) won't.

3. Is there any chemicals or the like that one can use to remove attached greenstuff from a metal figure?

A: There are, but the ones I know of will break it down completely and destroy it (they will also remove any paint you have on the mini too). I personally prefer waiting for it to harden slightly and the try to lift the edges with a longer thin tool and then prise it off bit by bit. Doing it slowly and carefully like this means it will probably come off in one go.

 

[Mr Phat]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

thanks for the answers Rikard.
Due to the second one I chose to scrap it and start over with the right ratio..got it off fine by hand.

I like the second result better so far so its cool.

 

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

thanks for the answers Rikard.
Due to the second one I chose to scrap it and start over with the right ratio..got it off fine by hand.

I like the second result better so far so its cool.

Not a problem, if it helps (assuming you have a project log or thread running in the painting and converting gallery) you can show me pictures and I can offer some better advice or critiques?

Heck, I could even make a running log where people can post their ideas and attempts and offer them feedback? (Note to mods on this one, as I don't want to cause a flood or 100+ page long thread that could get time consuming to moderate).


As a teaser, I've been hard at work (combination of Razordon, horned one and my cold one unit), I will be uploading a much more detailed tut soon (today), but here's a teaser for you on the head I've done.



Will post better (clearer) photos towards the projects end.

 

[Kroq]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Wow, it's just a wip and already better than GW's ones! Great job!

 

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Wow, it's just a wip and already better than GW's ones! Great job!

Thank you, not massively happy with it, personal preference wise, probably a 6.5 out of 10, but occasionally these things happen.

Anyways moving onwards with the tut; this will cover the head but the following bits will not be as full on as this one, because areas like the head and face are always more complex and multi layered (and some parts here will be repeated/re-used in other parts).

Continuing from where I left off:
As before, I asked some very important questions, such as, what does a razordon do? I now need to go one step further with this by looking at real life equivalents, in this case the thorny devil.


Seems like a very nice candidate from the huge amount of spines on it, so this will be a guide to refer to in making the Razordon. One thing that stands out nicely (and fits in with the fluff of a Razordon flicking spines at its foes) is the larger spikes, they have pockets with smaller ones growing out of them, something I'm going to try to combine with my Razordon.



You all saw the basic armature from before, well this is where you add more to it, though I should poiint out I got carried away and rushed things by going straight into a detail layer without building up the initial layer a little more first (a huge no-no).

What I've done is have a little practice with the green stuff and a clay shaper with an edge, though this is a bit of a bit idea, green stuff is thick, but not good at all for very fine work and attempting to do so can often leave a scratchy detail layer if you're not careful.



What you can see that I have done however is to try to give it a slightly weathered look around the bottom of the jaw, I've also poked some holes into the green stuff which I can then slide spikes into on a later stage. I also add in a detail layer to the top of the head and begin to create a basic structure shape (though less like a theropod dinosaur and more like a lizard) I haven't really opened the jaw either, but this is deliberate as you will see when I move on to the Salamander tutorial (I don't want them looking like distant cousins, both live in very different areas and hunt by very different means so their appearance and evolution needs to reflect this).



I now pull out the cheeks on the upper head by adding in large blobs of green stuff on either side and pulling them both towards the snout as well as down towards the lower jaw, this is to add thickness to the upper skull and leave some nice areas for details. As with the lower jaw, I slide in some holes and push all the way around on the inside to make it look more sheath like for the spikes. I also add on a top layer and sink in the eye sockets.

 

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

I now move on to the larger head crest spikes, as before I stick them on and then poke holes into the putty. I also add in a tooth brace to the upper and lower jaws so I can slide and sit the teeth infront of them a later stage.


Now my favourite part...spikes, plenty of spikes, scales and horns, very time consuming but all down to how you want the piece to look. As always the best results are the most annoying (which means doing them individually). You can also see the tooth brace I mentioned, sitting in the bottom jaw.


Afte the upper jaw is finished it's worth taking a drying break to settle your nerves and let the upper teeth harden, before you move on to the lower ones. I have also designed the teeth to be thinner, but not particularly long (not like a big dino which has long serrated teeth for ripping its prey apart), this is because of it's back ground fluff, it's not designed to rip things apart as part of its hunting tactics, it uses spikes it flings from its tail instead.

By that same vein I have not chosen to give it a wide gulping mouth either, no point as it again ties in to how it works, salamanders on the other hand need a very large radius for opening its mouth in order to spit fire, no-one wants to burn the inside of their mouths. I've also used this stage to make the eye ball and slide it just behind the lower eye lid, I then smooth it out.



I now finish with the remainder of the teeth and add in the upper eye lid and some more scales, things aren't finished yet, the head looks a little flat just above the eyes but this is something I can correct/add to as I go along.





NOTE on tools:
I find with scales and weather effects, you're much better off using wooden tools, metal ones can be a bit too scratchy (green stuff is also much more likely to stick to them) and clay shapers tend to be a bit too smooth.



EDIT:


Made some small changes to the head and the spikes, including around the snout and nostrils.

 

[Kroq]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

This step by step it's awesome! It shows all the study behind your sculpts!
And silly question time: How do you use the GS leftovers, to fill gaps or sculpt small things as jungle swarms?

 

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

This step by step it's awesome! It shows all the study behind your sculpts!
And silly question time: How do you use the GS leftovers, to fill gaps or sculpt small things as jungle swarms?

Normally I have several armatures on the go, so I tend to take any scraps and use them to bulk out a new one. However I also use a personal method which is I mix half the amount I think I'll need and usually it works out just right.

 

[Mr Phat]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Not a problem, if it helps (assuming you have a project log or thread running in the painting and converting gallery) you can show me pictures and I can offer some better advice or critiques?

I might make that actually! it would be much appriciated Im almost done with my Razordon convert...it has turned into a "hedehod-o-saurus" instead of an actaul razordon, but I like it! Green stuff is growing on me!

 

[Man0waR]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Hi Rikard, I'm a proud owner of alternative Kroxigors (3) by Avatar Of Wars Lizarman-hero along with Krokodar Slaughterer model from other game as Kroxigor unit champion.

If im not wrong you are the creator of those AoW masterpieces. Thank you very much !

One question. Are these works for self-entertaiment only or they can see green light for comercial purpose?
I'm interested in achieve some alternative models for some GW stuff I dont like. Razordons/Salamanders are one of them.

And if you dont mind, once you already finish the current design of R'dons I would be glad to suggest my point of view on new LM army designs as I'm fan of alternative miniatures.

 

[Rikard]

Re: You advise me and I'll sculpt it

Hi Rikard, I'm a proud owner of alternative Kroxigors (3) by Avatar Of Wars Lizarman-hero along with Krokodar Slaughterer model from other game as Kroxigor unit champion.

If im not wrong you are the creator of those AoW masterpieces. Thank you very much !

One question. Are these works for self-entertaiment only or they can see green light for comercial purpose?
I'm interested in achieve some alternative models for some GW stuff I dont like. Razordons/Salamanders are one of them.

And if you dont mind, once you already finish the current design of R'dons I would be glad to suggest my point of view on new LM army designs as I'm fan of alternative miniatures.

Hey,

Yes I did sculpt the AOW and troll forged ones, but to answer your question, the pieces I do now are just for my own enjoyment and my armies (fantasy and 40K), it's nice to do things for fun, rather than to a brief and with stricter/tighter guidelines (things like casting difficulty, IP, size, etc).

You are more than welcome to put in your oen suggestions BUT don't be offended if I don't use them, it's not because I'm being rude, it's because everything that gets made in this thread goes into my army, the one I use for gaming and so I sculpt things how I would like them to look. This also means units I don't use in my army I probably won't scratch build, but I will offer advice on.

I might make that actually! it would be much appriciated Im almost done with my Razordon convert...it has turned into a "hedehod-o-saurus" instead of an actaul razordon, but I like it! Green stuff is growing on me!

Sure thing mate!

Either post a picture in here or give me a link to the thread and I'll offer you feedback/suggestions.