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8th Ed. How to make people fear TG?

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Lizard-man87

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I have used temple guard in almost all of my battles, I have been playing WH for around 2 years now. I have only used them really as a slann bunker or small infantry unit due their expense. I know they pack a punch however never seem to make a strong mark in my eye, I do usually field a saurus horde.
My question is, do many of you field 20+ TG in a unit or a TG horde? I want them to do better in my battles! Is it worth it?
Any guidance much appreciated! :-)
 
Add a razor standard, and skavenpelt banner (via slann bsb, make slann loremaster of high magic), a bastiladon next to them, a hand of glory for all stat (ws+i matters this case), and enjoy the carnage they do. Skavenpelt is kinda upgrading every guy to a champion(10 points) so be at least 6 wide to make it worth taking it (~6 attacks, plus one from predatory fighter with a great chance, its about 6x10 points +1 from pf~=65). If you are going for a fun list, you can add a troglodon, but in my opinion, its not worth it. Maybe you can flank a unit with it, using its roar + stomp... dunno, maybe. But a saurus oldblood kitted with sword of might, armor of destiny, dawnstone, ironcurse/potion of speed/potion of foolhardines, and a shield fits great in the unit, this gives you a very effective tank with 6 s6 ap attacks, wich is nice:)
 
I run 26 with the razor banner and skaven pelt. Recently I threw in 2 scar vets, too. I run them 6 wide and 5ish deep

They tear through most things. Especially if you get off any (or a combination of):

Wyssians
Beast of horros (with scar vets in unit)
Harmonic
(the reroll 6's spell from heavens, forgot the name)
Ice shard blizzard
The flaming sword spell from fire
Speed of light
Timewarp
The 5+ regen life spell
The +2 toughness life spell

With frenzy, even if you get charged in the flank, you're putting out 15 ws4, s5 armor piercing PF attacks. And you're stubborn.. And cause fear.

In the front I put out 23 attacks + one from the slann.

I was using high magic. I recently tried beasts on my slann. That worked well
I'm going to try fire for a bit (for magic missiles to clear out chaff)

I've also been running 2 troglodons. They've been surprisingly resiliant. And two rounds of 5+ PF ain't too shabby (especially when 2 scar vets have frenzy and beast of horros cast on them!)

Of course... Infantry with great weapons tears them apart (grave guard, GW elves) ... That's where the 5+ from life would be nice. Or the Light spells.

I also had a bad time against a blender vampire (didn't have any saurus to challenge him and he killed 10 TG on his own, each round...)

Its an expensive unit. But since it ties up half (or more) of your points, your opponent has to deal with it.

I also use Tetto'ekko to vanguard them to the middle of the board and then turn 1 charge (or if I go first, just march them 8", right into the face of my opponents expensive unit.) play big or go home!
 
That would be brutal! Would you run then with a large block of saurus or mix it up for the rest?
I have used the skavenpelt banner before however some people I played with pointed out that the frenzy and hatred only apply when facing skaven?

I like the vanguard idea, make your opponent deal with it from turn one!
 
I run Skrox and skink skirmishers for my core. Right now I've got 2 units of 22 skinks (with poison upgrade) and 2 Krox. And one unit of 10 jav skirmishers. This is mostly for sweedish comp reasons.

The skavenpelt banner gives you frenzy all the time, but only hatred against skaven. And the the skaven hate the slann (but not the temple guard)
 
Would you prefer to have a TG horde or a saurus? I plan to have a unit of around 30+ TG then depending on oppo I can keep the rest quite versatile
 
Temple Guard over Saurus. WS4 is waaaay better than WS3. And Str5 is better than Str4 (especially with Armor Piercing). I miss the parry save but stubborn, fear, and immune to psychology helps make up for it.

Plus TG give better protection to the Slann.

I prefer Skrox units over regular Saurus.
 
What lore are you taking? Skrox units love Beasts (especially with a Chief), and Saurus units love Heavens (but Beasts as well). The two operate differently - important to keep that in mind when building your army and assigning roles.

While TG are better than Saurus for sure, they are 100% worse in the list-building phase. For example, consider the following:

If you're allotted 2,000 points with which to battle, then every Saurus that you take frees up points for the rest of your list. Every Temple Guard that you take essentially costs you twice as much, since they pull from Special and not Core. Saurus can fill the same exact role (aside from offering complete protection for the Slann, of course) though not as well.

Saurus & TG both love the Skavenpelt Banner. High Magic compliments both units very, very nicely. In that setup, a Trog & FoM Slann are great additions (Tempest is a lovely spell).

In my opinion, Saurus should roll with an Oldblood (they can get away with a BSB Vet, but BSB Vets on Cold Ones are a beautiful thing), and TG can get away with a Scar-Veteran or no characters at all.
 
Since the new book I have mainly used HM and first move was pick up wyssams, however I want to use other laws more. I have used some Krox however never fielded skrox units successfully, when would you use these?

I have always used saurus hordes for the price benefit but when I come against spsome enemy elite troups without a decent spell or two they don't always perform and I don't have enough TG (16-20) to really pack a punch anywhere with the slann in their. What have you found useful? (Thanks for the input :-))
 
Ixt said:
While TG are better than Saurus for sure, they are 100% worse in the list-building phase. For example, consider the following:

If you're allotted 2,000 points with which to battle, then every Saurus that you take frees up points for the rest of your list. Every Temple Guard that you take essentially costs you twice as much, since they pull from Special and not Core. Saurus can fill the same exact role (aside from offering complete protection for the Slann, of course) though not as well.
Click to expand...

Well, every Saurus you take in core takes pts away from your Skink allowance.

I tend to think of TG as a unit that isn't worth it, yet I always end up bringing one.

They are slightly overpriced, and tend to get torn apart by things in their pricerange.
The T4 is nice outside combat, but doesn't matter that much in the fights you bring them for.

The thing that makes them work, the Slann, is also their bane.
1 miscast and their useless, as combined with their low Initiative, it usually means you only have a handful left when they get to strike.

I once put the Skavenpelt banner on my TG Standard Bearer by accident (forgot about the max pts taken value)
That was the time they worked.

They took on a white lion horde and won. not by much, but they grinded them down each round with stability.

The reason WHY they worked was because the Slann WASNT with them...they could DO stuff without risking the frogs life, or fearing for their own end in a miscast blast.

It is no doubt the most satisfying game I ever played, wish I could do it each game.

What works to some extend to, which IS legal.

Razor Standard + Wandering Deliberations + Skavenpelt - miscasts = a very decent punch.
 
I am undecided still if to use them over saurus of both together (which is most likely). What armies would you take a lot of TG against?
Hard question I know, for example playing ogres soon.
 
Phatmotha-phucka said:
The reason WHY they worked was because the Slann WASNT with them...they could DO stuff without risking the frogs life, or fearing for their own end in a miscast blast.
Click to expand...

Play big, win big (or lose big!)

Don't worry about the Slann miscasting. It'll happen sometimes. (Stick to throwing 2 - 4 dice at spells. Shy away from 5 and 6 throws)

You're not the Patriots playing Football, you're not going to win every game. When I started approaching the game with a "Win big, or lose big" mentality I starting being less timid with my TG and was more successful!

Of course, sometimes my Slann falls down a hole and takes most of my TG with him. But sometimes I charge head first into a poor decision and come out victorious! (Turns out there are lots of good decisions to charge a unit of Temple Guard into though!)
 
I am a bit timid and measured when I play and your right when a miscast balls it up I thi shit! Cheers for the advice, go big or go home
 
From my experience playtesting this army before buying it, any time I ran saurus and TG I did poorly. They all need buffs to do their jobs at peak performance and without things like LoTGM to bubble out stat boosts it means trying to cast several spells at once and that meant one unit didn't get the help they needed and paid for it.

When I tried the Troglodon + 40 Razor Standard TG and Kroak it was pretty rough for my opponents, that was two games, but nonetheless it was impossible to shift with any ease. The trick in this game for making a decent unit a stellar one is to stack bonuses that also benefit you in other ways. Bastiladons, characters and the like. Buying them a banner is nice but its a single purpose, single effect. With multiple overlapping buffs from different sources it makes untying the knot a tricky proposition for an opponent. This is the stuff deathstars are made from, not that that is what we wish to create.
 
hdctambien said:
Phatmotha-phucka said:
The reason WHY they worked was because the Slann WASNT with them...they could DO stuff without risking the frogs life, or fearing for their own end in a miscast blast.
Click to expand...

Play big, win big (or lose big!)

Don't worry about the Slann miscasting. It'll happen sometimes. (Stick to throwing 2 - 4 dice at spells. Shy away from 5 and 6 throws)

You're not the Patriots playing Football, you're not going to win every game. When I started approaching the game with a "Win big, or lose big" mentality I starting being less timid with my TG and was more successful!

Of course, sometimes my Slann falls down a hole and takes most of my TG with him. But sometimes I charge head first into a poor decision and come out victorious! (Turns out there are lots of good decisions to charge a unit of Temple Guard into though!)
Click to expand...

I hear what you say, but this is more how I feel about the game:

"Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter."
- Winston Churchill

In my meta, if you go Leeroy Jenkins, you get outmaneuvered, and you lose.
Especially as lizzies, as you more often than not DONT have the upper hand in CC.
 
Stuntyogre said:
From my experience playtesting this army before buying it, any time I ran saurus and TG I did poorly. They all need buffs to do their jobs at peak performance and without things like LoTGM to bubble out stat boosts it means trying to cast several spells at once and that meant one unit didn't get the help they needed and paid for it.

When I tried the Troglodon + 40 Razor Standard TG and Kroak it was pretty rough for my opponents, that was two games, but nonetheless it was impossible to shift with any ease. The trick in this game for making a decent unit a stellar one is to stack bonuses that also benefit you in other ways. Bastiladons, characters and the like. Buying them a banner is nice but its a single purpose, single effect. With multiple overlapping buffs from different sources it makes untying the knot a tricky proposition for an opponent. This is the stuff deathstars are made from, not that that is what we wish to create.
Click to expand...

Thanks that's helpful, I like the idea of Kroak and other buffs with banners. Do you not find having only one spell and no buffs available limiting? I would run at least a couple of priests too but you know how easy people can snipe them
 
Lizard-man87 said:
Thanks that's helpful, I like the idea of Kroak and other buffs with banners. Do you not find having only one spell and no buffs available limiting? I would run at least a couple of priests too but you know how easy people can snipe them
Click to expand...


Kroak in TG works wonders, just remember that you cant have anything else in there, so you have to stick with the 50pts banner on the TG.
And to the people with "I put THIS GUY in it FIRST!, and then Kroak SECOND"...shame on you :P
 
I haven't used him before, what else can't you put I there? A scar vet or old old blood?
 
You cant put anything in with him.

He makes the unit unbreakable, and nothing that isnt unbreakable can join it.

so its Kroak and TG solo.

EDIT: which works just fint btw! :P
 
I see, I suppose that would begin to create a deathstar! I am creating a list now for a match in the week. I will post what I am going to use shortly, thanks for all your help!
 
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