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7th Ed. How to deal with Anvil of Doom?

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Jungle Swarm

benbjo

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I am going up against dwarves in a 2000 points match soonish. I will be fielding a "normal" lizzie setup with a slann and an engine of the gods.

My opponent will bring Thorek with his Anvil which means that he will wipe me out pretty quickly if I can't deal with his anvil in few turns. There is also the problem with the cannon. I was thinking of bringing Terradons to deal with the cannon. This won't work however as they will be wiped out by the Anvil on turn 1.

Magic won't work either. There is a small chance of actually hitting Thorek. If I hit he is tough to wound and he also has a ward save.

I was thnking of bringing a skink chief on a steg to take the anvil out, but this probably wont work either as:
1. It will die before it reaches the anvil.
2. My opponent has at least a unit protecting the unit

Could 1-2 Scar Vets somehow given flying work? I can't see them killing Thorek as he wipes out all armor and shields. Besides, they would probably be shot to death before reaching their destination.

Could I ignore it completely? Probably not, right? Unless I go all out attack. And then my magiccasters would be wasted. Even so I would still have to worry about that annoying cannon.

I really can't see anyway to neutralize the Anvil or even have a chance of winning this game.

His most likely setup: Thorek w/Anvil, 20slayers, 1cannon, 20 ironbreakers, 20warriors, 12 thunderers og 10 quarrelers?

Any tips?
 
the only way to stop Thorek is to get into combat with him. that's the only way he cannot use the anvil. i have found that a unit of 11/1 skrox is great for taking out warmachines (i.e. anvil, casket of soul). rarely does anyone target this unit with shooting or magic because you have saurus warriors to target, terradons sometimes they target, stegadons to target, so consider the fact that the skrox unit has M6 and can march 12, hopefully by turn 3 you should be in combat with thorek. and remember, thorek/anvil does not need LOS so you need to hurry up and get to him. i play dwarfs as well and i ALWAYS hide him behind a hill, in a forest, in mud, whatever it takes so that no one can target him so quickly. or you could send the terradons over to him by turn 2 and have the skrox unit take on warmachines. its up to you. OR PRAY that he miscasts.
i was also thinking, if thorek is not hiding and you have an EotG with a slann in play, you could move the priest close enough and have the Slann channel burning iron to the runelord but by doing that, you have to roll to see who it hits because the runelord, anvil and the two guards are 1 model which means randomizing which sometimes is a pain when you don't hit.
 
you can't channel rule of burning iron, its not a magic missile
 
First off:
Ask your opponent not to use Thorek. He is overpowered. A normal Anvil is quite powerfull too, but not OVERpowered.
Second:
Tell your opponent that Thorek has been nerfed. GW even found him over the top! He can use the re-roll for ' misfire' only once per game instead of once per turn
Third:
He will put his anvil+thorek (as mentioned) in some woods or the like; so you cant really get there anytime soon.
You will have to enter combat with him to deny him using the anvil. That means moving up to behind the hill/in the woods/ in the marsh....
All while being shot at. He might have the Master Rune of Challenge as well (basically a Siren Song), charge or flee. That way the unit of Terries that was into position (finally!) has to flee from the Thane holding this rune, or charge him (and his unit)....Nuff said.
Terradons will get hit by Thorek-> cannot fly+damage.
Skrox will get ignored first round or 2, but if you opponent realizes this -> quarrelers will go hunting
SCOR-> shot
Saurii->not fast enough
skinks (cohorts and skirmishers) -> not durable enough (Toughness and Ld)
Scar-Vet on CO moving on his own -> cannon target, but if you manage to kill cannon/remain out of LOS. THis is a pretty good option. The anvil cannot target lone characters IIRC (will check).
Scar-Vet with Jag Charm -> lots of dispel dice. BUt could work for a round or 2. Thorek can beat this guy...

I'd say your best bet is to go all-in. That being moving al things up at max speed and just try and go for it. You cannot sit back, at all, he will just shoot you.
Magic is unlikely to have a great effect. Leave it, or go truly mad on magic!

Again: Thorek is no fun to play against. A normal anvil is.

The Hunted
 
you could allways march up a carnosaur in that guys face if he can't be targeted on his own. the problem with a canon killing him or just mass shooting still exists tough
 
I'll have to check when I get home (at uni now), but
a character with US1 cannot be targetted. US2 I'm not so sure of, probably not. US3, and 4 are irrelevant.
and 5+ can always be targeted...The attack is resolved in the same way as shooting, so our big boy on his even bigger beast CAN be targeted by the anvil.
But when he's alone, he's free (just watch out for those cannons :P)

The Hunted
 
The Hunted said:
First off:
Ask your opponent not to use Thorek. He is overpowered. A normal Anvil is quite powerfull too, but not OVERpowered.
Second:
Tell your opponent that Thorek has been nerfed. GW even found him over the top! He can use the re-roll for ' misfire' only once per game instead of once per turn
Click to expand...

As someone who had a recent try with dwarves, the second really discounts the first for me. I thought he was AWESOME value (i.e. overpowered), until the nerf. Post nerf he feels like an overly expensive runelord with no dispel scrolls.

If he's playing thorek, well at least thats less points in something actually nasty! :P



oddly enough, the anvil is quite specific that it can target units or single models with the large target rule. as the carnosaur fits neither of those, he cannot be targetted. tbh i would be less worried by cannon and more worried by normal handguns.... so-so toughness of 5 and rubbishy save of 4+ = no fun :/
 
Lore of Shadows on the Slann. Use the discipline that gives you all spells and bring pit of shades. That will swallow the anvil whole if it goes off, as it has no initiative so it automatically dies.

Shadows has other good spells for getting into combat quickly to take out that cannon as well. I believe its the level 4 spell that moves an entire unit forward. So, in turn one... move terradons 20 inches. Cast that spell on them and they go another 20 inches right into the cannon. Use pit of shades on anvil, etc... He won't be able to stop it all.

Dwarves are my first army and I know that when I've taken Thorek (only when opponent also brings Teclis) that the pit of shades eats him up every time.
 
sadly the unseer lurker (the movement spell) can only be cast on units within 12", so that's probably not going to work. plus even with 0 combat runes, the runelord+anvil guards can probably beat 3-4 terradons quite easily, and as the general is unlikely to be in range they'll be straight back out of combat.

pit of shades, yes it will work, and very nicely too. of course the dwarves can put a lot of effort into dispelling it, but you can always IF it. personally i think its a tad harsh on the anvil :P
 
Was thinking of Terradons into the cannon crew, not the anvil!
 
actually, if you march your slann straight forward and the terradons are in front of him they should be within 12". 20-8=12. still not really necessary as you probably only need about 30" to charge a cannon (or at least when i play against empire thats the general distance) so even if the terradons fly 15" you should be safe to cast unseen lurker.
the biggest problem with the lore of shados are the 2 totally useless spells. steed of shadows will probably not be cast unless you field a saurus on foot (and usualy he has the CotJW to do that for him) and skinks on foot should have the cloak of feathers and be far away from the slann for effective casting. there also the 3rd spell [i think] that hruts all units within 12" friend or foe. as your slann cant leave your blocks to get near the enemy (its not advised at least) and he can't cast stted of shadows on himself to fly past the enemy blocks he can't cast the spell either (unless you want to hurt your units aswell). granted that in some cases its worth doing some damage on your own troops if there are more valueable units to hurt on the oppoents side.
with 2 spell being cast very rare/not at all the lore of shadows is rather easy to dispell and pit of shades will probably only go off on a IF, especially against dwarves
 
I disagree about steed of shadows being worthless. A scar vet is a great tool to be used to throw 20 inches into the enemys' war machines or lone mages. Having this spell in addition to the jaguar charm and you're almost guaranteed that the enemy won't be able to dispell everything and you'll be hitting at least one war machine turn 1.
 
If you design your list solely for use of the lore of shadows, then yes.
Most 'balanced' lists do not have 2 scar-vets on foot.
Sometimes 1, and that guy then caries the Charm of the Jaguar Warrior.
You will not be killing/hitting war machines on turn 1 vs an experienced dwarven general.
Here's why:
Often, the war machines are placed in between the blocks. And; if done correctly it denies charges from units/characters. Simply angle the dwarves towards eachother, leaving just a tiny gap for LOS. Nobody can charge in, but they can shoot out. Ofcourse, this only works for the first 1-2, maybe 3 turns. But then the damage has been done.
Or, the terradons will get their wings handed back to them by a runesmit/thane also within the crew. A runesmith isn't all that dangerous, but will beat them eventually.

A scar-vet has the likelyhood of being challenged by an engineer, as they are champions, and thus can only kill 1 crewmember. The stubborn nature of dwarven crews keeps the rest in place. Next turn, he has to kill 3 dwarves to wipe out the crew. And if you do, you are no longer in combat; and thus will be shot down very rapidly :P
Dwarves are quite tough to beat in a single round. Expect to grind.

So, war machine hunting against dwarves is quite some bit tougher than 'normal'. As the stunties will do everything to protect their only way of winning. War Machines.
And they are
quite capable of defending these things...

Then there's another thing:

They're dwarves. Ok, nothing spectacular. Small, sturdy, bearded guys with large tankards; right?
oh, and great dispelling capabilities. With an anvil; expect to face 7 DD+1 scroll. That's quite some dispelling!
So you have to get the spells through BEFORE you get into all the problems mentioned above...
And with only 4 threats in the first turn or two (steed, pit, lurker, charm of the jag)...that's harsh.
You do have to cast all of them, remember? that's 2 big spells and a smaller one. Enjoy the ride.

Enough talk, anything I might have missed (I can hear you shout: Ofcourse, you stupid :P)

The Hunted
 
War machine charge first turn is accomplished by using steed of shadows on a scar vet WITH the jag charm on him. First the mage casts on him, then he uses his charm. That's 40 inches of "I'll charge whoever the hell I want, thank you very much"
 
thats actually 2 dispells from the enemy. the charm will likely get dispelled as for most people it is obvious why there is a scar veteran on foot in a unit. and probably the slann's will be dispelled aswell, as its easyr to do so than others.
don't forget the skink priests tough. 1st turn arcane configuration is nice when casting protent of far on the slann with only 1 dice (50% chance). if it goes off it will draw 2 dispell dices as nobody can aford a slann that rerolls 1's. celestial shield is also nice to protect your unit from shooting, it will get dispelled again. both uranon's and forked lightning have unlimited range so they should be targeted at warmachines to take out some of the crew, they will maybe go through, its not that dangerous. and there is allways the commet wich people tend to dispell for some odd reason. slann should actually be last to cast, thats the way i play it atl east
 
I agree with your assessment, and that is typically how I cast as well.
 
Anvils themselves can't be swallowed up instantly like other war machines by pit of shades, but you can still hit the crew. They are resilient to shooting, but only get a 4+ ward, shots are not randomized to hit the anvil. Most warmachine crew get effectively a 3+ ward as 1-4 will hit the machine. This means you can fly your little skink priest up and start casting missiles. While not much will die, the anvil literally cannot do a thing against him, and the anvil with Thorek only has 4 models to kill. If you're lucky and take out Kraggi, the assistant, then Thorek loses the ability to reroll failed attempts (although that shouldn't be much of an issue now with the recent FAQ).
 
How will you kill the anvil in the first 1-3 turns again?
Remember, the darn thing is NOT in LOS. He will be planting it behind a hill, in a wood (more than 2" from the sides) or in/behind any other LOS obstructing terrain piece.
So, you first have to get past the blocks and machines.

And the machine first turn charge can be done by magic, sure. But if you scroll up and check my comment on war machine charge. ->
He will put his machines in between 2 blocks. He will angle those blocks towards eachother in such a way that nothing can pass, but the machine has a tiny gap it can shoot through. How on earth are you going to charge?


The Hunted
 
the small gap aint all that bad. it reduces teh arc of sight of the war machine by a lot. and 1st turn charges aren't allways ncessary. you only need to get behind the screening units and you charge in the 2nd turn :D.
also, don't flyers charge over units? i'm too lazy to check the BRB but how else could you drop rocks while charging?
 
yeah as long as you can see the unit, you charge over other enemies.
 
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