• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

7th Ed. How to counter Wood Elves.

Gannon
Saurus

Gannon

New Member
Messages
96
Likes Received
0
Trophy Points
0
Hello everybody,

This is my first post on this forum as a new Lizardmen player.

I'm from Belgium, so I'ld like to mention that my English won't be perfect.

First of all I'ld like to thank all these people here for all the information on this forum about Lizzies.

But since i haven't found any tactics about fighting against WE, I'm stuck.

This friday I'm going to do a 2250 battle vs WE. It's going to be my second battle in a Warhammer store since I started with Lizzies.

I'm not expecting to win cuz I got no salamanders, terradons or a stegadon which seem cool and which I really like to have some day.

But I do have like 50 skinks 40 Saurus 3 Kroxi's and a Carnosaus with lord, a Saurus lord on food and some Skink Hero's.

My list would be something like this.


Saurus Oldblood
Carnosaur
Glyph necklace 5+ WS
Sword of Might +1 strenght
Enchanted shield 5+ AS
Quetlz, Sotek, Itzl
Venom of the Firefly Frog

Skink Priest lvl 2
Dispellscroll x2

Skink Priest lvl 2
Diadem of Power

Skink Chief
Scout
Cloak of Feathers
2 Hand Weapons
Light Armour
Shield
Spawn of Sotek

Saurus warriors x20 (Full Command)
Standerd Banner
Musician
Spawning of Quetzl

Saurus warriors x10

Saurus warriors x10


Saurus Cold Ones x 8


Chameleon Skinks x 6

Skinks x 12
Scouts
Handweapon + Blowpipe

Skinks x 12
Handweapon + Blowpipe

Skinks x 11
Handweapon + Blowpipe

Kroxigors x3
Great Weapon

What I know would be needed vs WE are Salamanders cuz of flaming or maybe a Slann with Fire Magic, but since I haven't got either of those options ( I'll have a Slann this saturday) I feel like I could use some tips about fighting against WE.

As about my opponent I know he has a big WE army as he's a regular and experienced player.

Last time he played, he used something like this:
-Alter highborn
stuff, helm of the hunt
-wardancer noble
stuff
-spellsinger lvl 2
2 scrolls
-wild rider noble on great stag
stuff

10 glade guard
10 glade guard
10 glade guard
12 dryads

10 wild riders

treeman
8 waywatchers

And maybe some more...

As for now I can imagine the Treeman being a big problem cause I got no salamanders.

Maybe my carnosaus could take him down but then i would espect him to be stuck for the entire game fighting a treeman, which is no option...

Also cuz of the many archer fire I'm afraid I'ld lose half my army before I would get over to his side with the 4M of my Saurus...

I'm also considering dropping the second priest and putting an Scar Vet to put with my cold ones or putting a JSOD, but I see no real use of the JSOD vs the WE as if he gets in open ground he would be shot to pieces like he does vs the empire gunline.. neither can he hide in woods cuz the treesinging of the WE.
But then my Magic phase is rlly weak.

I'm rlly out of idea's about what to do.

And I atleast want to avoid a massacre ;)
 
Firstly, I HIGHLY suggest taking a 2nd generation Slnn. We's magic defense is horrible, quite frankly. Not to mention it'll alllow you to take Fire magic for the big trees and the ward saves/regen spell won't save them from you're magic. I easily crushed a WE army with a strong Slann. Because of that, if you can, you might consider a JSoD to give you a fast hard-hitter woh can kill a strong noble in a challenge. If I were you, I'd drop some of the Saurus/CO's cause they're almost worthless since your WE pal will use the trees to his advantage. I always take 2 units of 4 Kroxigors to smack the crap out of him. And you shouldn't need the models to play the game exactly, I never have enough so I substitute my units with correctly sized cut paper or enough models of a smaller size to make the correct base size. So if you can, you MUST take salamanders against this guy. But what will help you most is a sick magic phase to crush him.

-Dalkarius
 
Hey,

Thanks for the reply. I'm getting myself a Slann this week. I'm doubting of using him as last time I played a second gen slann(skink priest on piece of paper) was versus empire and he only killed 6 knights some halbardiers and some pistoliers. Was also cuz my opponent had luck with dispells and had about 4 dispell scrolls.
But hey that was his right to do so.

With all repect to your reply but I don't like to use an army which is made mostly of some paper :/

If I've got to drop my saurus and COR's I've got almost nothing left but some skinks and 3 kroxi's.

And I really love my fully painted army :D

Back on topic:

Salamanders will be my second priority after I got me my Slann. Then maybe some extra Kroxi's or a Stegadon.

Also about the JSOD, I'm not used of playing him and insuch I fear to waste him infront of all the WE's firepower as I'm sure he'll take him as a primary target. In that way I think a FSOD (scout) is more usefull, who can fly 20" from some soft cover lake right into his mage or maybe to stall his archers while my army moves.

This is where my doubts begin to grow, wheter to use this almost 200pnt guy just to kill some archers and stall them cuz of my lack of flyers or either use the points in 2 scar vets by dropping my second priest aswell as WE's magic is weak indeed.

Those are the idea's I'm thinking about to use this friday, but it's not much.

I think fast units as Calv is nessecary vs archer armies or am I totally wrong here ?

I know COR are as bad as hell since the new 7th ed armies as I've seen vs the dark elves and empire (which both my best friend has and used against me...) but the WE's themselves are still 6th ed (if i'm right) and could maybe be vunerable against some kind of Calv.

Also I will try to avoid his treeman as long as I possible could.

But I'll surely take ur advice into work when I get the models I need ;)
 
Word of adwise: Strike fast and ruthless! For every turn you use on march, the WE are gaining victory points...
If you go for big blocks of saurus, at least consider sun standard of chotc.

I would probobly rely on heavy magic and a lot of skinks. If his treeman worries you, simply don't fight him.
focus your forces elswere and take out them pesky shooters!
 
Use scouts. Now r men have to use what they have to their advantage.

Really want to win?

Well take out 2 Skink Preist if he's a vet He'll hve a few Dispell Scrolls.

Make a JSOD and a Hero on Carnosaur stick them into your 2 squads.

Give 3 squads of Skinks Scout.

And ask a Ogre player of DOW player to brrw some stuff.
This is just me ofcourse. ( No forget I also play Bret)
 
Well, if I'd get my Slann this week before friday. I think I'd play him, but its most unlikely that'll be the case.

Well you made a good point with the priests as he will probably put some disp scrolls, but I've read on some WE forums that their magic, surely when using forest spirits is nessecary for a good game.

So when I created my list I thought to stop some of his magic, but for that I would only need dispell dice's.

So maybe I could drop a Priest and give some units Tepok as matter of balance to stop his magic face.

Then I could give my unit of COR a scar vet with the Huanchi banner or Sun banner.

I know ur all saying JSOD, JSOD, but could u tell me then how to use him in this battle ?

Put him in my saurus block and pull him out when needed ? What if he sends his Treeman with M5 to my saurusblock... don't think a scar vet can deal some dmg to a Treeman.

Maybe I should give my hero on carno the burning blade of chotec as it gives a -2 arm save and its flame attack. To try kill of his treeman as fast as I can.

And as u said I should probably make all 3 my skink forces scouts as he will use a hill with his archers and could shoot right over my skink screen anyway.

I've got some tweeking to do ;)
 
the spell you need to be most careful against is Tree Singing which is their lvl 1 spell

and they can buy an item that will let them cast that spell repeatedly
 
Yup,

Also his treeman has it as a soulbound lvl 5 spell.

I think I'm gonna drop the priests and put extra scar vets just give some things Tepok to block his treesinging.

=)
 
Ok, firstly, I'll always stick by the Slann, next, you need something to either block those archers or get them in combat QUICK. Those WE Glade Guard are ruthless. As for the treeman, I'll always suggest Slann but a Carnosaur with a burning blade rider would probably shred him in record time.

As for the units you do have, Huanchi may by the way to go so that he can't throw some trees in front of you and ruin your entire strategy. (Keep in mind with a Slann correctly boosted it's very unlikely he'll ever get a spell off, with a good priest)

The JSoD against Wood Elves, well, firstly he's GREAT for crashing into a archer unit turn 1 (if you have a Slann with Steed of Shadows) and can tear them apart. He's great for any heros (SPELLCASTERS) and can quickly kill the BSB or General if plotted carefully. I use him to take out the spell casters and BSB first, challenging them and ripping their heads off. Don't forget your GW!

And although you may think the Scouts will die a a quick skirmish screen, keep in mind they're awesome for quickly diminishing archer units. Just watch out for Wild Riders and Dyrads!

Best of luck,

Dalkarius
 
i'd say that you rather not pump that much on the lord.

don't have a shield on your skink chief, you can't use it whit 2 HWs

make him take a sick magic phase.

use the wonderful advantage of skink screen, large skink units whit kroxi's behind.

match he's trees out on there own field, namly use you saurus t attract them, and then hit hard and fast whit some kroxis, or something else hard hitting.

about the treeman, the spell is just made for moving the tree's so move long far away from it. the carnosaur would have a good chance of taking it though. but rather focus on he's wild riders. the watchers yuo should do whit some poison shots from yuor skinks, but DO mind he's wild riders!
 
Yes, you're right.

I altered my list. I saw the mistake in my skink chief too late.

I'll give my final list and my plans right here:

I know you've all adviced me to use a Slann and if I would have had him by now I would use him but I don't.
And since this is vs a veteran player I'd doubt he would let me use a piece of paper as a slann, so I'm gonna use the units I got.

Saurus Oldblood
Carnosaur
Light armour
Glyph necklace 5+ WS
Burning Blade of Chotek
Enchanted shield 5+ AS
Quetlz, Sotek, Itzl


Scar-Veteran BSB
Tepok
Light armor
Huanchi's blessed totem

Scar-Veteran on Cold One
Tepok, Itzl
sword of battle
light armor, shield

Skink Chief
Scout
Cloak of Feathers
2 Hand Weapons
Light Armour
Spawn of Sotek

Saurus warriors x19
Standerd Banner
Musician
Quetzl
Tepok

Saurus warriors x16
Standerd banner
Musician
Champion

Saurus Cold Ones x 7
Standerd Banner
Musician

Chameleon Skinks x 7

Skinks x 12
Scouts
Handweapon + Blowpipe

Skinks x 12
Scouts
Handweapon + Blowpipe

Skinks x 12
Scouts
Handweapon + Blowpipe

Kroxigors x3
Great Weapon


0 powerdice
4 dispelldice's

Iim gonna use some kind of swamp to put my skink scouts in to get them as close as I can to his archers.

Since he is probably going to use a hill a skink screen will be of no use so rather use them for something.

The chams will go behind his lines also to try kill his mage or archers.

Then the 2 blocks of saurus will march together with krox on the side and cold ones running around to flank stuff ( away from forests)

I'm going to try and give the huanchi banner a shot to see if it'll do some good for my saurus blocks.

I hope I'll give him a rough time.

Also I could use some advice about the water thing. I know skinks are out of sight in Water elements but how does this work? Are skinks invisible for the enemy for the entire game (being in water). Or only the first round?


thanks for all the replies so far ;)

I'll try to keep a record from the game and I'll post the battle report for sure.
 
A few notes, firstly since your Scar-Veteran is a BSB he cannot wield a shield and since he has a magic banner, he cannot take any other magical equipment. Another thing is the Enchanted Shield can only be given to ONE character, like other items. You want to be sure your list doesn't break these fine lines before you worry about anything else.
 
Ah ok,

I thought since ench shield is a commen item it could be given multiple times, like dispell scroll can.

I didn't know that when wearing a magic banner as BSB he can't wear any other magic equipment.

Does this apply on my scar vet on the cold one too ??

Hmm this will give me some stuff to think about.

Anyway thanks for the notification.
 
(If any of this was addressed by Dalkarius, let me know, he got his post up while I was typing this)

Magic items can only be used once per army, meaning that you can't have copies of the same magic item on two different people, or the same item twice on the same person. Both the Enchanted Shield and the Sword of Battle make repeated appearances.

I'd try to squeeze that light armor onto the Old Blood. The difference between a 0+ and a 1+ may seem trivial until you're being hit with a strength 7.

A Scar Vet that is a Battle Standard Bearer can't have a shield, period. Also, if he has a magical banner, he can't have any other magic items, period. Also, you can only have one BSB, so you'll have to choose which will get one and go from there. And your Skink Chief cannot have the Cloak of Feathers and the Venom of the Firefly Frog, as both are from the Enchanted Items list (Minus the Dispel Scrolls and Power Stones, you can only have one of a magic item per list and only one item per set, like magic weapons or enchanted items, on a single individual).

Unit strength needed for flanking, rank bonus and catching fleeing units is 5, so your unit of 16 saurus will be unable to use its rank bonus in a 4x4 square. It needs to be 5 wide, which will leave you with an odd man in the back. I don't know if that was your intention, but it might save you a few points to just drop that last guy.

And lastly, Skinks units at 12 are in an odd situation. I'd either recommend dropping the brave and moving them up to 13 a unit (needing four casualties to drop below 75% for panic test) or save some points and drop to 10 a unit since their main reason is for screening and you lose minimal points per unit with 10. Also, be aware that having that brave means that he can be challenged by any champion on a charge, and since he's definitely not built for close combat, you'll be mopping skink guts off of the ground by the end of the fight. The extra ballistic skill isn't usually worth it when you're just rolling for sixes anyway.
 
Hmm ye I see.

I didn't check the rulebook about magic items yet, since I've read it now I changed my list.

The brave's were only to make my points complete 2249... but now I dropped some magic stuff and the braves. To add more saurus then. The reason for the 12 skinks is as above to fully use my points rather then make them all 13 I'd prefer an extra of 10 then. Need to check again now how much my points are.

Man, making a list seems more difficult then I first thought :D.

My previous posts make me realise how hard it is to really come up with a balanced list before beginning with anything else. But that's why I came to this forum to learn the game. As most likely nobody would say me these things without seing my lists, which never rlly happens in real life battles.
 
yuor still going up for wood elves are you?

so skip the burning balde, wood elves do NOT have higher saves then 4+ ever, and 4+ only on highborns or nobles(well treeman and treekins, but those are for avoiding)

since it is wood elves, the chance of meeting a S7 attack is highly unlickly, unless he uses some kind of spear on his highborn when he rides something.

third, if he is a veteran player, he will now if yuor chams are in swamp that they are not that much of a problem, that they do not deserve more than one slavo of arrows of glade guards whit S4

and try distracting those dryads, there real nasty in CC, especially to skinks.

that's why a skink screen is always usefull even if he happens to have a hill. then simply avoid that hill and do some magic on it instead. send terries there or have yuor chams poison them, or what ever pleases you.

pretty fun, that im a former WE player. :P
 
Just need to point out that the Max of anysave you can have is a 1+ not a 0.

I would use a Great Weapon instead of Sword of Might
 
doom_diver said:
Just need to point out that the Max of anysave you can have is a 1+ not a 0.

I would use a Great Weapon instead of Sword of Might
Click to expand...


i've looked in the rulebook for a cap on armor save but never did find one

only thing i've seen with a cap are magical items that specifically state that it can't be improved past the number
 
doom_diver said:
Just need to point out that the Max of anysave you can have is a 1+ not a 0.

I would use a Great Weapon instead of Sword of Might
Click to expand...

I don't think that's correct. You can have as high armor save as it goes, but a roll of 1 always fails.
pp.30

ec. I have an Oldblood on cold one, with enchanted shield, light armor and Blessed spawning of quetzl.
That gives me a armor save of -1+
I still miss the save on a D6 roll of 1, but the advantage comes when fighting high strenght enemies.
A S7 hit on my Oldblood gives me a save on 3+, as for a chaos knight who has a save of 1+ would have to roll 5+
 
Aparach is correct, there are even ways to give a Old-blood a -1 save though it skips my memory how, but a roll of a one shall never succeed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top