8th Ed. how the dreaded 13 is BS..

[Wreckr]

ok ok so i no its a 25 cast value and i no its rare to see (at least in my meta) but tonight i saw it turn 20TG and my 350+pts slann into clanrats turn 1... GG game lol

i no i shouldn't complain but there was a big discussion (others in the room) on how BS this spell is.. so my question to u is - Do you think is OP or did he get crazy lucky...?

discuss

 

[Sebbs]

I know Skaven is a "hit or miss" faction but I don't think a spell should be that powerful, that goes for Dwellers and all those other GG spells.

 

[Sebbs]

I know Skaven is a "hit or miss" faction but I don't think a spell should be that powerful, that goes for Dwellers and all those other GG spells.

By hit or miss I mean that they have lots of dice rolls that can go either good or bad, skaven as a race is pretty high tire I guess

 

[rantapanda]

quite much related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxhvMddciUE

made me lots of lolss

 

[JuQ]

That spell can be good or crap depending the army you are facing. VS lizzards is awesome because of our expensive infantry, but against horde armies is not so good and not as good as Dwelers Below and other block destroyer spells.
Also, about half of the attempts to cast a 25+ spell will fail due to low dice rolling and then, they will basically do nothing else in their magic phase.

I don't know if it really is overpowered, but still risky to cast and they will almost always need IF to get it through because otherwise there will be a Dispel Scroll waiting for it.
I read somewhere (DAKADAKA i think it was) that the chances to get double 6 rolling 6 dice is about 26%. Ifthat math was true they would need to invest four magic phases to cast the spell for sure.

IMO the Scorch Ruin spell is way more unbalanced. A F4 template with no dispersion with only a 10+ dificulty is nuts in 8th edition.

 

[T_Saurus]

D13 is a strong spell. But there are tons of strong spells, and spells that are easier to cast. What about a flying Daemon Prince launching a psun down your flank?

It is an incredibly high cast value. On average you NEED to throw 6 dice at it. (Unless they power scroll it )

My first army was Skaven and it is quite situational when it is useful but when it is useful it is extremely powerful. For instance against a WoC list with skullcrushers, trolls, chariots chimera and a dp it has no targets. Against an all mounted empire list no targets. Ogres no targets.

You could include a mounted character in the unit if you are that concerned about being hit by it. Cause to my knowledge that would make it an untargetable unit...or go with more than 24 models so that there is no chance to be wiped off the board with just 1 cast of the spell. And remember that for a 25+ to cast it could also only kill 4 models. And should on average only kill like 14.


EDIT: Someone posted TheSustainableCenters Skaven rant, if anyone is interested there is a follow up discussion (THAT I AM PART OF ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYFiFmb5vt0

 

[Man0waR]

I have the feeling that Slann is not the best option to deal with some armies.

I faced a friend who was spamming the shit dreaded 13th. I fielded 8 CoR + Oldblood + BSB and run the whole flank wiping out all their units along the course of the game.

Of course I put a big block of saurus that were turn into rats. Also is what I expected. I did Massacre.

Againts low quality troops CoR are awesome.

 

[n810]

For revenge you could start fielding the scroll that turns his wizard into a frog.

 

[JuQ]

For revenge you could start fielding the scroll that turns his wizard into a frog.

The Slann os inmune ti that scroll, right? You know, he is already a frog...

 

[Lizardmatt]

Psst...
Want the secret for killing skaven? Spend minimum on core, take 2 priests with cube and scroll, and then spam as many points as you can into cold ones, krox, ripperdactyles, salamanders and razordons.

It's the infantry that takes a beating, so just minimize that.

-Matt

 

[Putzfrau]

It was a spell built around 7th edition rules and has aged awkwardly.

The skaven book should be out soon hopefully it hits the mark.

 

[T_Saurus]

Psst...
Want the secret for killing skaven? Spend minimum on core, take 2 priests with cube and scroll, and then spam as many points as you can into cold ones, krox, ripperdactyles, salamanders and razordons.

It's the infantry that takes a beating, so just minimize that.

-Matt

If you aren't running infantry he isn't going to trade for the d13...

If you think the d13 is the only thing in the Skaven army to worry about you've got another thing coming...its called the Hellpit and it is going to eat your face

 

[JuQ]

[
If you aren't running infantry he isn't going to trade for the d13...

You generate spells before deployment. I'm sure this time!

 

[T_Saurus]

That's not how Jervis plays


On page 162 it says that he rolls for spells when he is deployed. As characters are deployed last and I guarantee the Skaven player has more drops than that WoC list would that the WoC player would have finished dropping everything before Skaven gets to characters. Additionally...

A Grey Seer can freely mix spells from both Skaven spell disciplines, just be sure to announce which spell table is being used before rolling. The Grey Seer can substitute one spell for either Skitterleap or the Dreaded Thirteenth Spell.

So not only, do you roll for spells when he is deployed...he didn't have to pick what spells he is using from which lore until then haha

 

[Morewar]

Isn't the slann immune to D13? Don't have the book with me, but doesn't the palanquin make like infantry unaffected by the rules of infantry?

 

[JuQ]

That's not how Jervis plays


On page 162 it says that he rolls for spells when he is deployed. As characters are deployed last and I guarantee the Skaven player has more drops than that WoC list would that the WoC player would have finished dropping everything before Skaven gets to characters. Additionally...

So not only, do you roll for spells when he is deployed...he didn't have to pick what spells he is using from which lore until then haha

It says "before deploying your Wizards", that is quite unclear. Iterrupting the deployement sequences to start generating spells feels quite counterintuitive. Makes more sense that everybody generate their spells just before commencing all deployment.
After all they don't learn their spells at that very time, they have been studying their magic for long time before going to battle

Isn't the slann immune to D13? Don't have the book with me, but doesn't the palanquin make like infantry unaffected by the rules of infantry?

It is infantry but it is not on foot, it is quite confusing, basically he can get look out sir and is affected to infantry only stuff, but cannot use items like the flying carpet that requieres "infantry on foot". I'm not sure if it count as mounted for other purposes such as joining skirmishers.