8th Ed. How do Saurus survive to actually fight?

[StormyPete]

I keep switching being using Heavens and Beasts on my Priest. I've had a lot of luck with Iceshard Blizzard and Harmonic Convergence/Curse of the Midnight Wind to help keep them alive or do more damage. It's really nice having both Heavens AND Beasts though. I think SilverFaith hits the core of their issues... they need support but their S and T of 4 and decent armor saves can make you think that they don't.

I almost always have both Saurus and Skinks in all my lists and they serve me quite well. I haven't gone above 20 Saurus yet as when the points go up I tend to just add more Skinks (maybe some Kroxigor) to fill out Core points.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

Not much to add here, but my (noobish) experience is with magic buffs (Wyssans or Hand of Glory, maybe the Basti) and right opponents, they're fine.

+1

Wyssan's on a unit of Spear Warriors makes them really nasty.

 

[Eladimir]

Saurus doesn't do well against (compared to skinks w/ jav+shield in close combat):

Strength 6+ w WS4+: Skinks survive equally good.
S5: Saurus are a tad bit better, but not by much.
T6+: Skinks also wound on 6
1+ AS: Skinks are equal to saurus.

What they do well is:
Anything with S3-4 and T3-4 with save 4+ or worse.


Flank or rear attacks is always good, since the enemy doesn't get rank bonus, supporting attacks or parry saves. But to get the flank charge, you will need skinks to redirect...

It's all about knowing what to fight, against the wrong unit they just gets slaughtered and you get sad

If you want to use saurus, it's also a good idea to add a scar-vet to the unit, both to soak up damage, but mostly to give you a few high-streanght attacks. Sword of might, biting, GW or +2S sword is good for this. Foot-sloggers should be cheap, prefarably AS2+ but 3+ is acceptible for a GW-wielder. Ench shield, gamblers armour, dragonhelm. And luckstone! Maybe potion of strength against AS1+
Cowboys is also great, but they don't get look out sir! But they are great redirectors, since most units don't actually kill him in one round of combat.

This guy got it right. I would add in here that the Egg of Quango is an amazing item. Enchanted Shield, Blade of Biting and the Egg, Charge in roll well with the Egg and with your ranks standard make a big win and break em.

 

[SilverFaith]

Saurus are powerful by themselves regardless. I still remember a unit of saurus with an oldblood kitted out with: Steg helm, Light armour, talisman of preservation, GW and other tricksters shard

They where charged by white lions with BotWD and a Prince. The prince took my challlenge, but the WL killed all 17 saurus that was left in the unit after a few archers had pelted it for a few turns. the prince wailed on my T6, 2+ 4++ Oldblood, but did nothing. My oldblood got his turn, and managed to get 6 unsaved wounds on his prince. He was kind of pissed at not getting his ward save (Yay for Great Weapons!), but since I had still lost combat by a million, I needed snake eyes. Which I got.

Next turn, his unit wailed at my Oldblood, did nothing, and took 5 themselves. they broke, and my oldblood ran them down.

Silly elves.

 

[Ixt]

I've been doing very well lately with a core composed of Skirmishers & small or medium Skrox units, w/ TG In special.

It seems that for all of my Saurus' accomplishments, my TG and Skinks have far exceeded them.

I fielded my Warriors with a Scar Vet after realizing how lame they were in combat without one. What I then found myself using was the same slow, predictable, expensive unit... with more killing power for a tax. No thanks. Not for me.

I decided to exchange them - Saurus Warriors and Scar Vet - with TG, point-for-point.

I quickly found that a Scar Vet wouldn't be necessary for these monsters - and I haven't looked back!

Standard Saurus just don't cut it for me. All-in-all, they're a vanilla, boring big block of 'meh.' If they could buy great weapons or additional hand weapons, I'd be happy with them.

I don't play many games over 2k, for what it's worth. I guess that in higher-point matches, I'd probably still field a block of them.

 

[Pinktaco]

Saurus are powerful by themselves regardless. I still remember a unit of saurus with an oldblood kitted out with: Steg helm, Light armour, talisman of preservation, GW and other tricksters shard

They where charged by white lions with BotWD and a Prince. The prince took my challlenge, but the WL killed all 17 saurus that was left in the unit after a few archers had pelted it for a few turns. the prince wailed on my T6, 2+ 4++ Oldblood, but did nothing. My oldblood got his turn, and managed to get 6 unsaved wounds on his prince. He was kind of pissed at not getting his ward save (Yay for Great Weapons!), but since I had still lost combat by a million, I needed snake eyes. Which I got.

Next turn, his unit wailed at my Oldblood, did nothing, and took 5 themselves. they broke, and my oldblood ran them down.

Silly elves.

So the OB is powerful, not the actual saurus warriors?

 

[Cheeto]

OP I found a similar issue with you, my solution was running a larger block. My current saurus block is uusally between 40-45 models. I find this gives them enough wounds to make it into combat and than last. I have had great success with my saurus block. As many have said though you need to pick and choose your fights.

 

[SilverFaith]

Saurus are powerful by themselves regardless. I still remember a unit of saurus with an oldblood kitted out with: Steg helm, Light armour, talisman of preservation, GW and other tricksters shard

They where charged by white lions with BotWD and a Prince. The prince took my challlenge, but the WL killed all 17 saurus that was left in the unit after a few archers had pelted it for a few turns. the prince wailed on my T6, 2+ 4++ Oldblood, but did nothing. My oldblood got his turn, and managed to get 6 unsaved wounds on his prince. He was kind of pissed at not getting his ward save (Yay for Great Weapons!), but since I had still lost combat by a million, I needed snake eyes. Which I got.

Next turn, his unit wailed at my Oldblood, did nothing, and took 5 themselves. they broke, and my oldblood ran them down.

Silly elves.

So the OB is powerful, not the actual saurus warriors?

Exactly! The Saurus were actually quite useless, and almost killed the Oldblood by being there, actually

Saurus suffer a lot from the same things VCs core does, actually. None of them can hold themselves in battle. They all rely on support through characters and magic. Only difference is the scale - A unit of skeletons will not, baring extreme luck, defeat the regular special choice, regardless of the magic support and character support you give it. Saurus CAN hold themselves decently against other core.

Being S&T 4 with a 4+as 2 attacks makes them far better than the average s3t3 1 attack core units, who are usually equally armoured or worse.

tl;dr: Use them against core, not special. If you use them against special, use support units and magic, otherwise don't expect them to hold the line.

 

[Myster2]

OP I found a similar issue with you, my solution was running a larger block. My current saurus block is uusally between 40-45 models. I find this gives them enough wounds to make it into combat and than last. I have had great success with my saurus block. As many have said though you need to pick and choose your fights.

This, i keep seeing people say that thier 25 unit of saurus didn't last. Don't take 25, its not enough, you need them to be able to hold out long enough to swing back a few times. I usually do 35 and a scar vet in ranks of 6. You also do not want your rank sizes to be very large. I believe the ideal size was 7 but I prefer 6 (and my movement trys are that size).

I always have saurus if just because I hate having to move 7 blocks of 10 skink skirmishers around.

 

[Kblock]

Because of the models I have, I always use Saurus in my Armies. I like the look of the models and how they fit the Lizardmen fluff. Even if I had enough Skinks or Krox to fill out the core requirements, I would still take at a least a unit of Saurus.

In some battles they have done well, and in others they have been slaughtered. When they are successful, as others have said, it is because of magic or other unit support, or by fighting other core infantry. When going up against special units on their own, they do not last long.

 

[Pinktaco]

Saurus are powerful by themselves regardless. I still remember a unit of saurus with an oldblood kitted out with: Steg helm, Light armour, talisman of preservation, GW and other tricksters shard

They where charged by white lions with BotWD and a Prince. The prince took my challlenge, but the WL killed all 17 saurus that was left in the unit after a few archers had pelted it for a few turns. the prince wailed on my T6, 2+ 4++ Oldblood, but did nothing. My oldblood got his turn, and managed to get 6 unsaved wounds on his prince. He was kind of pissed at not getting his ward save (Yay for Great Weapons!), but since I had still lost combat by a million, I needed snake eyes. Which I got.

Next turn, his unit wailed at my Oldblood, did nothing, and took 5 themselves. they broke, and my oldblood ran them down.

Silly elves.

So the OB is powerful, not the actual saurus warriors?

Exactly! The Saurus were actually quite useless, and almost killed the Oldblood by being there, actually

Saurus suffer a lot from the same things VCs core does, actually. None of them can hold themselves in battle. They all rely on support through characters and magic. Only difference is the scale - A unit of skeletons will not, baring extreme luck, defeat the regular special choice, regardless of the magic support and character support you give it. Saurus CAN hold themselves decently against other core.

Being S&T 4 with a 4+as 2 attacks makes them far better than the average s3t3 1 attack core units, who are usually equally armoured or worse.

tl;dr: Use them against core, not special. If you use them against special, use support units and magic, otherwise don't expect them to hold the line.

Where you fighting a horde? Because if not your opponent must've been quite lucky. Even 9 wide and at least 3 deep would only do 15 wounds. I'm guessing most will have a unit that is 6 wide, granting then 18 attacks + 1 from champ. That'll be 10,5 wounds. If you have 35 saurus who a 7 wide with speara we actuslly stand a chance since we'll hit back with the same amount of wounds.

 

[GCPD]

A good Scar-Vet support build for a Saurus block is Quango Egg, Sword of Striking and Enchanted Shield. T5 with 2+, and 4-5 S5 attacks hitting on +1, all after the Egg knocks off 2d6 S5 hits before anyone gets to swing.

Being S&T 4 with a 4+as 2 attacks makes them far better than the average s3t3 1 attack core units, who are usually equally armoured or worse.

tl;dr: Use them against core, not special. If you use them against special, use support units and magic, otherwise don't expect them to hold the line.

BRB, going to go find S3/T3 Core to fight...

 

[Qupakoco]

BRB, going to go find S3/T3 Core to fight...

Haha, good lol from that one.

Adding Characters to your Core unit is practically the same thing as using the CO Bus. If you just took 3 Scar-Vets in a Saurus unit, that particular unit suddenly becomes a lot beefier. But does that have anything to do with the vanilla Saurus? Nope. They're just the bus.

It is a travesty that Saurus were created to march forth and eradicate many of the lesser races, but are drastically incapable of doing so.

 

[Ixt]

It is a travesty that Saurus were created to march forth and eradicate many of the lesser races, but are drastically incapable of doing so.

Yep!

Another instance of game mechanics failing the awesome fluff.

 

[NexS1]

I imagine that the fluff would see the Slann and the Skink priests providing buffs that never fail and Saurus characters killing things before they get a chance to strike (due to their thousands of years experience in war).

There's also a picture of a Slann owning a greater daemon in the book. THough that's a littl emore believeable. Slann's are awesome.

 

[Pinktaco]

Maybe the saurus were created for a much more simpler time? You know without chaos, advanced dwarfs and elfs etc.? Fluff wise dat is

 

[SilverFaith]

Maybe the saurus were created for a much more simpler time? You know without chaos, advanced dwarfs and elfs etc.? Fluff wise dat is

This is pretty much it.

They were created when the lesser races truly were "lesser". They were weaker, had worse equipment, and were less organised.

Still doesn't explain the low WS though. The book explicitly state how incredibly skilled temple guards are at close combat, which most certainly isn't expressed through their meh-worthy WS4.

 

[n810]

Mostly it's because of "codex creep", st3/to3/ws3 is the base stats for humans, and used to be average for warhammer armies, except lately they kept making the new books more powerfull than the previous one,
except for Lizardmen for some reason....?

 

[GCPD]

Having just been flicking through the OnG book, it turns out that Cave Squigs and Giant Spiders are better warriors than Saurus - and equal footing to Temple Guard. Who knew.

You should just let the WS thing go. It will never make senze to Lizardmen players, and people who don't play Lizardmen will never understand why we think they are bad.

 

[Ixt]

... and people who don't play Lizardmen will never understand why we think they are bad.

Heh, that just happened to me this morning.

Roommate: "Are you sure? Saurus Warriors seem pretty good! Yeah their initiative and WS both suck, but, I mean -- what do they cost? Like 8, maybe 9 points?"
Me: (pours hot coffee into own eyes)