8th Ed. How are everyone experiencing our "new"special characters?

[Pinktaco]

Figured we'd talk a bit about this. My friends and I are going to allow special characters so I've taken a second look at the lot.

Personally I find Tetto'Eko utterly insane for his price, I mean:

- reroll all dice of 1 when rolling to cast a spell, sometimes you can reroll dice of 6.
- Vanguard D3 units.
- Loremaster of Heaven (which in itself is a great lore IMO).
- Reroll whether the Comet comes from the spell.
- A ward save of 5+
- Can be placed in the second rank of a skink cohort unit.

The downside of him:

- "only" 2 wounds, which on the other hand is fair for a hero wizard.
- "only" a level 2 wizard.

So no real downsides.

I feel as if you can perfectly well take this guy at a 2500pts game and not use a slann at all. If we look at what he comes with he's a level 2 caster which will normally cost us 100pts + another 30pts for the ward save. Paying an additional 55pts for loremaster, vanguard, herald of cosmic even and the stellar staff is just nuts. I mean the Slann have to pay 35pts to get high magic and while it's not the best comparison I still think I've made my point. We get a lot of GOOD stuff from those 185 hero points Tetto costs.

Also, the model is awesome.

So if special characters are allowed in your group I'd say it's close to a no-brainer.

The other characters? Meh, I don't know too much about them. I know some like Kroak and I feel as if Gor-Rok can be usefull although he doesn't pack as much good stuff as Tetto + he can somewhat be made from a regular scar vet.

IMO Chakax is a wasted opportunity. Maybe there's something I don't see here, by why does he cost 85pts points MORE than Gor-Rok? It is the Unbreakable special rule? Because When I look at those two I find Gor-Rok to be superior desipite being vastly cheaper. Two of Chakax magic items have no effect except in a challenge so most of the time he's just a Scar vet which brings unbreakable to a unit that doesn't really need it, a 3+ armour save, a great weapon and the ability to see hidden units. Compared to that Gor-Rok have a +1T, "hatred", PF on 5+ an armour save of 2+, have the ability reduce a killing blow to 1 wound. Finally he also have a shield that gives dangerous terrain (is this taken as a normal dangerous terrain or am I supposed to understand that you fail on 1 and 2?). Oh and yeah he brings stubborn to any unit and not just when he's with a slann or something.

Overall I just don't see why anyone would ever take Chakax. Maybe if his point value wast reduced and the ward save wasn't exclusively for challenges. It's a shame though because I really like the Chakax model.

So what are your thoughts and experience about the SC we got in the new book?

 

[NexS1]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Gor-Rok is an auto include for me. They've made him usable, which I'm taking as an apology for him being so utterly useless in the last book, and so expensive.
Also, Lord Kroak is solid. Not very defensive, but fun to play.

 

[VampTeddy]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

I've only tested kroak, and only against elves.

Now toughness 3 and strength 4 with good dice rolls play very nasty together.

In 2 turns of 9 and 11 dice and 5 dispel i killed units from each unit in his army, reducing his combat efficiency vastly since he used an all infantry blocks list to test it.

He dreads the kroak, and i somewhat get it, flying skinks ain't fun.

 

[Sleboda]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

I've only tried Tetto'Eko so far and I am really disappointed in him.

I actually don't want to re-roll my 1's when casting! I'd rather re-roll 6's and avoid miscasts, not encourage them.

I rarely cast comet since the buffs and hexes are so much more important to me.

I've only had one game where vanguard really helped.

His items are fixed, which means your opponent knows exactly what he has and, consequently, what you don]t have in your list (such as no threat of a dispel scroll - not that I take them anyway).

He's ok, just not worth it to me.

 

[lizardmen98]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

I've only tried Tetto'Eko so far and I am really disappointed in him.

I actually don't want to re-roll my 1's when casting! I'd rather re-roll 6's and avoid miscasts, not encourage them.

I rarely cast comet since the buffs and hexes are so much more important to me.

I've only had one game where vanguard really helped.

His items are fixed, which means your opponent knows exactly what he has and, consequently, what you don]t have in your list (such as no threat of a dispel scroll - not that I take them anyway).

He's ok, just not worth it to me.

Why would you rather reroll 6's? If you reroll a 1, you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a six. If you reroll a 6, you have a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a 1. Would you rather miscast or get IF?

And on your last point, does that mean you dislike all special characters? I'm not blaming you, as I dislike the un-creativity involved, not to mention the exorbitant GW price tag, (combined with my terrible sculpting skills.)

Its just of a bit of a weird reason to dislike special characters, since it only really comes into play when playing against people who already know his items during a competitive scenario.

 

[hdctambien]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Why would you rather reroll 6's? If you reroll a 1, you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a six. If you reroll a 6, you have a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a 1. Would you rather miscast or get IF?

I'm not quite sure I follow you here. Miscast and IF both happen on double 6's. Double 1's no longer cause a miscast (unless your opponent has a magic item that is just as bad as Cupped Hands was.... *cough*Dark Elves*cough*)

 

[Pinktaco]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Snake eyes (2 x 1) results in "lost concentration", if that is what he meant.

 

[hdctambien]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Snake eyes (2 x 1) results in "lost concentration", if that is what he meant.

If I'm only throwing 2 dice at a spell, I usually would prefer the lose my concentration rather than miscast, kill a bunch of Temple Guard and lose d6 of my remaining dice. And I think that is also Sleboda's sentiment, too.

Even if you're running the Slann solo or with skirmished skinks, losing d6 power dice can ruin a magic phase worse than losing concentration (I can always just throw my extra dice at Wyssans from my priests after my main caster loses concentration)

 

[lizardmen98]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Snake eyes (2 x 1) results in "lost concentration", if that is what he meant.

If I'm only throwing 2 dice at a spell, I usually would prefer the lose my concentration rather than miscast, kill a bunch of Temple Guard and lose d6 of my remaining dice. And I think that is also Sleboda's sentiment, too.

Even if you're running the Slann solo or with skirmished skinks, losing d6 power dice can ruin a magic phase worse than losing concentration (I can always just throw my extra dice at Wyssans from my priests after my main caster loses concentration)

Double ones no longer miscast? I bow to you sir *wipes tear from eye* many temple guard have been saved by your wisdom.

 

[Sleboda]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Double ones no longer miscast? I bow to you sir *wipes tear from eye* many temple guard have been saved by your wisdom.

=> Holy schmokes! Have you been living under a rock for 3.5 years?

Welcome to the modern age, friend.


I guess now it makes sense to you why I would prefer to re-roll 6's instead of 1's!

 

[MarchoftheStegs]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Hmm.

Well I was a fan of Mazdamundi in the old book but haven't had a game big enough to run him yet.

Kroak- A 3++ ward and miscast protection with mark of nurgle and unbreakable for his Temple guard. And Skaven pelt banner BSB and beast mages for best deathstar results. Also flying priest and maybe a trog.

Kroq-gar- meh although his carno having a 5++ ward is good for a laugh.

Gor-rok though is a legit and viable option being that he does have T 6 and a 2+ armor save and providing a unit with stubborn really good.

Chakax I like the model but can't justify him in any way.

Tetto'Eko- Some people swear by him, Never used him.

Tik'Taq'To-cool idea but he really can't do much

Oxyotl Okay

 

[lizardmen98]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Double ones no longer miscast? I bow to you sir *wipes tear from eye* many temple guard have been saved by your wisdom.

=> Holy schmokes! Have you been living under a rock for 3.5 years?

Welcome to the modern age, friend.


I guess now it makes sense to you why I would prefer to re-roll 6's instead of 1's!

Im cold blooded, where did you think I lived?
No but seriously, how did I not know?

 

[Lizardmatt]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Kroak and Tictactoe are buddies.
Tictacs -1 to be shot works really well with Kroaks -1 to be shot or hit.
Throw a skink skirmish screen in front and laugh with the -4 to be shot.

-Matt

 

[Tecuani]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

The new Tehenhauin as a general is about the only thing I actually like about the new book. Where the previous version was a rubbish fighter combined with a mediocre spellcaster, the new version has proven to be good value as a level three spellcaster that can fight a little bit.
As well as a significant boost to level three, he benefits from synergy with a lower level priest using the lore of beasts, and Tehenhauin plus one disciple of each colour has given me a powerful and versatile magic phase featuring two copies of wildform, a few other useful spells from the lore of beasts, and iceshard blizzard as a cheaper hex with good range. The double wildform I've found to be particularly good-an opponent is lucky to dispel both, and it's a powerful buff.
While still weak in combat, he has just enough stats to benefit from wildform or savage beast, and unlike a slann has the option of Transformation of Kadon in an emergency, although I often choose other spells from the lore of beasts over it. Also added to his credentials as a leader is LD8, on a par with saurus characters.

Last but by no means least, his new background as once-and-future ratcatcher means I got to have fun converting an old skink priest model with appropriate Arthurian regalia. And we all thought King Arthur would be brettonian....

 

[Putzfrau]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Kroak and Tictactoe are buddies.
Tictacs -1 to be shot works really well with Kroaks -1 to be shot or hit.
Throw a skink skirmish screen in front and laugh with the -4 to be shot.

-Matt

Characters on flying mounts can not join units.

 

[Lizardmatt]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Kroak and Tictactoe are buddies.
Tictacs -1 to be shot works really well with Kroaks -1 to be shot or hit.
Throw a skink skirmish screen in front and laugh with the -4 to be shot.

-Matt

Characters on flying mounts can not join units.

Incorrect.
Characters cannot join flying units. Temple Guard do not fly.

 

[Putzfrau]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

Kroak and Tictactoe are buddies.
Tictacs -1 to be shot works really well with Kroaks -1 to be shot or hit.
Throw a skink skirmish screen in front and laugh with the -4 to be shot.

-Matt

Characters on flying mounts can not join units.

Incorrect.
Characters cannot join flying units. Temple Guard do not fly.

My mistake i must have thought terradons were monsters and not monstrous cav for whatever reason


Ah, now I feel stupid

 

[Battlehamster]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

I love my Gor'rok. He was my all star in the last local tourney I was in. I put him in a large unit of Saurus who won't run til the last man. He turned the tide in turn 4-5 in my first game against Dwarfs, by being the sole survivor of a fight with a unit of crossbows and hammerers. He chased them all down and turned a defeat into a slight victory for me by the end.

In the last game of the same tourney, he got into a challenge with a kitted our Vampire Lord who took 2 turns to kill him. My opponent was quite surprised at how resilient he was (still lost but was still a cool fight).

 

[Pandafaust]

Re: How are everyone experiencing our "new"special character

I've just starting playing again since a 15 year or so hiatus, and have only had two matches (and only one of them with my lizzies) so my experience is somewhat limited; however I'd have to say the only special character I'm intending to use almost whenever I get the chance is Tetto'ekko, and I can see that Gor-rok is pretty handy too. That said, I don't have Kroak, Tenenhauin, Kroq-Gar or Mazdamundi so haven't really considered them in great detail.

I actually don't want to re-roll my 1's when casting! I'd rather re-roll 6's and avoid miscasts, not encourage them.

^^ I see your point but I'm generally conservative anyway when casting so see him as a way to fairly reliably cast using fewer dice rather than for making things harder to dispel with the more expensive spells. Also, I think his ability is useful even when it 'backfires' and you're forced to re-roll 6's as that gives you the chance to switch tactics and force through higher-level spells with plenty of dice and minimal chance of IF/Miscast.