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8th Ed. high elves unit inquiry

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Grimxd

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so i've been VERY slowly building and gathering more and more high elves and now i'm within reason to build a 100 point army. however now that i have the rulebook and i'm looking at it i'm having trouble seeing what are decent units and why.

anyone able to point out the good units and why and on the other side show the bad units and why?
 
Silver helms are crap, because they are only a few points less than dragon princes but nowhere near as good. Dragon Princes are amazing. Sword masters kill a load, but they are very fragile so you have to protect them. Phoenix Guard are great, my favourite special unit. White Lions I rate a bit higher than SM due to the shooting protection and woodsman.

Archers are terrible, reavers are pretty expensive but everyone needs fast cavalry or scouts I guess. Spearmen are decent, Seaguard are actually pretty decent now but expensive. Princes are not worth taking unless you want to take a monstrous mount. Mages are very expensive, but worth it in 8th ed since magic is so good. Eagles are pretty good, bolt throwers are good but a bit expensive for what they bring.
 
I agree with Strewart - Swordmasters are pretty tough and good to field. They seem cost effective to me. ( just won a lot of 15 with full command of Swordmaster from Ebay too).

I rank their archers up there with the Bretonnians, which isn't much. The reavers have a pretty cool feature which allows them to move just before the game "starts" (I think I got the right unit) and can be used to good effect.

I haven't got to play with PG, DP or WL units yet so cannot comment. The bolt throwers are high on the costs imo, but depending on what you're fighting would be worth it. Their range (albiet spells) can keep them from most harm for the first few rounds.
 
thank you gentlemen your feedback is very appreciated. if you have anymore insight please by all means share.
 
your core will lose almost any battle it starts so try what my opponet does and just take the minimum amout of core in the form of archers so if your enemy wants to waste his time going after them you can flank him
 
I disagree. With HE attacking in an extra rank above everyone else with their spears, and striking first, almost always rerolling missed to hit rolls again because of ASF they can be a pretty good unit. Add a noble into the front with a great weapon striking first and rerolling misses as well, and you have a pretty decent unit. You will still want to give them some support or soften the enemy unit from range (or magic) first, but they are quite effective. Certainly more than in previous editions.

HE are an army where they all need to work together and fight as one force, they need to support each other. Most units individually will struggle, even Dragon Princes sometimes now that steadfast is keeping units around. My dragon princes will usually win a prolonged combat over 2-3 rounds against a full ranked unit on their own if they need to though.
 
currently my question is, is it worth it to have any other core then lothern sea guard? and secondly if a prince holds a great weapon does he infact strike first?
 
Second question is easiest, high elves always strike first regardless of what weapons they have. Your opponent may point to the BRB stating that ASF and ASL (last) cancel each other out, you can point to your army book stating that High Elves always strike first regardless, and to back it up open the HE FAQ which confirms that HE get a special ASF that isn't negated by great weapons and the like. ;)

Now.. Lets first clarify that archers are basically worthless, so it becomes a question of seaguard vs spearmen. Both are exactly the same in combat assuming you put shields on the seaguard (you should) but seaguard have a bow to shoot at range with, and also to stand and shoot with. I believe this makes them about 4 points more expensive. So a unit of 25 ranked 6x4 with a spare behind is going to get 15 bow shots on turns it isn't in combat or marching, at s3. For this, you are paying the cost of a bolt thrower which has longer range, higher strength and AP but only with 6 shots. Worth it? You be the judge.

I have been using seaguard in 8th ed, and they have been performing well since you get 4 ranks attacking first AFTER a full stand and shoot when you get charged (so don't bother charging with them) and that is quite nice, however, the bow shots are still only s3 and honestly they really don't do all that much damage to anything. I therefore suggest that for the points saved, spearmen are at least as good as seaguard and it really depends on whether you want to pay the points for a bit of extra shooting that may kill 5-10 models per game and give you a bit more flexibility.
 
i just find it so odd that you have the sea guard when they obviously make spears and archers obsolete. whats the point of having spears and archers even as a possibility when it could be other characters all together. know what i mean?

thank you for the fast response btw!
 
The nastiest combat unit I've yet encountered in the game: 50+ Hoard of HE spearmen with Occam's Mindrazor cast on them. Take an archmage with Shadow and the item that lets you pick your spells, and enjoy.
 
Grimxd said:
i just find it so odd that you have the sea guard when they obviously make spears and archers obsolete. whats the point of having spears and archers even as a possibility when it could be other characters all together. know what i mean?

thank you for the fast response btw!
Click to expand...

Its not quite as simple as that, though 8th ed has certainly pushed things in favour of the seaguard. In 6th and 7th, when only 1 rank from the seaguard could shoot, you were looking at 5-7 extra shots per turn, which was not worth it at all for the extra points you pay.

And I think in some cases, multi-use units can be a bit of a waste. You are paying a lot of points for these guys and they still die extremely easily. They can shoot, but then their combat potential is wasted. They can jump into combat ASAP, but then their shooting is wasted. You really need to balance what you will do with them. As I mentioned, its a lot of extra points for a unit just to get bows, do you think the bows will kill enough models to make them worth taking? Sometimes.

I guess it comes down to what style army you want. Seaguard are very very good defensively. If someone charges, they get all those stand and shoot arrows killing a few then face 4 ranks worth of attacks (5 if you take a horde!) and this is very good. If you want a more offensive army though, as soon as they march they cannot shoot so you are better off with spearmen if you are aiming for combat.
 
yeah i definitely see the advantages of the 3 alittle better now. alittle confused about the 4 ranks of attack though. isn't that 3 with spears?

any thoughts on which special combat team to use? PG or SM or WL? or a combination or so forth?

also i was thinking for myself to bring always alteast two mages. so my main thoughts were combo's or lores for two level two's or a combo of a level one and level two. anyone know any really good magic combo's specific to work well in general or work really well for high elves?
 
Grimxd said:
yeah i definitely see the advantages of the 3 alittle better now. alittle confused about the 4 ranks of attack though. isn't that 3 with spears?

any thoughts on which special combat team to use? PG or SM or WL? or a combination or so forth?

also i was thinking for myself to bring always alteast two mages. so my main thoughts were combo's or lores for two level two's or a combo of a level one and level two. anyone know any really good magic combo's specific to work well in general or work really well for high elves?
Click to expand...

Normal 2 ranks attack
+1 for spears
+1 for being High Elves
+1 for being a horde (10 models wide)
 
i have to be over looking something. where does it say +1 for being high elves?
 
Grimxd said:
i have to be over looking something. where does it say +1 for being high elves?
Click to expand...

Somewhere in the high Elf rule book, its one of those army wide rules.
 
oh i see it martial prowess. crazy stuff there. well that explains that.

now as for the dual mages. anyone know of any good lore combo's or advise in not to do dual lores or such?
with lizardmen i normally do life or light and our priests are with sky only so there really isn't a choice. but what off the other lores. what secret mighty combos can they wield?
 
Shadow and Life is what most High Elves are running these days...
 
I've been using life because all round it is really good, probably the best overall lore. But yes shadow and light also look extremely tempting with their own hexes and friendly boosts.
 
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