8th Ed. Help needed... 1500pts vs Woc

[twistedmagpie]

Some of you may have noticed my post in the tactics forum so please forgive me...as an afterthought, it's probably better to put the list I have here and ask for assistance to adjust it rather than basic tactics vs Woc. The crux of my issue is all advice against these guys suggests big units, where at this points level I can't afford many of those and it leaves me feeling 'naked'. Here it is...

Slann - cube of darkness
20 x Temple guard (Standard & Musician)

Scar Vet - BSB, LA, Shield & Dragonbane Gem
35 x Saurus (Standars & musician)

Ancient Steg (Horns & EOTG)

Am I really going to stand a chance? Or should I be splitting into smaller units? Taking some of the models out & adding more monsters to assist with charges?

p.s. Going to be using Lore of Light. I'm new to Lizardmen and have been trying out the BRB lores as it's the first time I've had access to them (Skaven before), I've not tried Light, Life or Metal yet but from advice on the forum it seems light would be better (Particularly due to the lore attribute)

 

[VampTeddy]

Metal might also do well against WoC - but light probably won't dissapoint you.

I think you'd need some skirmishers or cohorts in the list to try and redirect the movement of some of the more nasty pieces of chaos units and also be able to dictate more of unit placement.

Currently you're sitting on 3 unit's and you'll have them all deployed while he probably has 2 more units to place.

Also your maneuverability when it comes to flankings and the likes suffer under your low amount of units. I think if you want to win versus chaos in a fight you need the backup.

Just my 2 cents.

35 saurus might stay steadfast for long enough to outgrind WoC.

 

[twistedmagpie]

So any advice on what to take off? I could take temple guard down to 15 and remove the Scar Vet (BsB transfered to Slann). This would give me 2 units of skirmishers and a revered gaurdian in the TG unit, my slann now also has an obsidian trinket so he has extra magic protection & a bit for the TG.

Is Javelin & shield going to be a better option of am I wasting the chance to use blowpipes - I'd imagine most WoC to have high strength meaning shields would be pretty pointless.

Should I be worrying about their magic (do they have much direct damage)

 

[sorrowquin]

TBH any army with only 3 units is a terrible idea... It can easily be controlled and picked apart bit by bit.

WoC has the stronger troups anyways so you shouldn't try to keep up with that but use the flexibility of our army to outmaneuver them. Keep in mind, 1500pts isn't much and their units are even more expensive than ours so he won't field that much. A Deamon Prince is unlikely aswell as Chosen. Take advantage of that!

Lore of Light is very strong but personally against WoC I always want Searing Doom. With Light you want the buff spells and its not guaranteed to get them. Those magic missiles don't do much against WoC and the Lore attribute is wasted (your playing WoC not Deamons).


With that in mind I created a List. I did this in 10min and it can probably be optimised but should still be solid.

Lords: 375
Slann, BSB, Wandering Deliberations, Reservoir of E.E

Heros: 235
Priest, Scroll
Scarvet, CO, GW, l.A., Dragonhelm, Dawnstone

Core: 430
30 Saurus, FC
10 Skirmishers

Special: 210
3 Terradons
3 Terradons

Rare: 250
Ancient Steg, S.Horns

1500 on the nose.


Put your Saurus in the center of your battleline with the Steg next to it. Slann in Skirmishers somewhere near.
Sit back and let the WoC come at you while you fire away with Searing Doom and other Missiles. Use your Terradons to clear chaff and redirect his main blocks so you can pick 1 priority target for your Saurus. You either want them to get charged and then run your Steg into the Flank the next turn or do a double charge with them. Than buff the hell out of your Saurus!
IF hes fielding Skullcrushers you need to shot them down with Searing Doom and HAVE your Steg charge them! If you manage the charge you should be fine, sharpened Horns are absolutely amazing.
Your Scarvet can go on his own on a flank. Hunt his chimera or chariots or whatever. If you can have him assist in the major battle afterwards. At this point lvl there won't be much he can't cope with.
Your Priest should cover areas your Slann can't reach with missiles for arcane vasseling.

WoC can have strong magic but at 1500pts I highly doubt it. If he's still going magic heavy he can't field much of the staff thats bashing you down so thats ok. At this lvl he might even go without magic at all.

I'd take HW+S on your Saurus because you want to grind them down and parry helps with that.


Hope that helps.

 

[twistedmagpie]

Well thats actually a lot more like my normal list. I honestly didn't think it would cut it. Advice has generally been that skinks and terradons will be ripped apart and not worth using.

I unfortunately don't have 2 units of terradons so I've taken your suggestion but swapped out the 2nd triplet for the EOTG on good old steggy, 10 skinks in a cohort (with musician) and swapped out the Slanns reservoir for an ironcurse icon.

Sound alright?

 

[sorrowquin]

The Terradons are not supposed to survive.
You use them to kill is dogs and light cavalry which they are very capeable of and than to redirect his combat blocks so you can get a good charge angle. They will die during the redirection, thats obvious.

I strongly recommend taking reservoir. It's a nearly guaranteed extra PD and you want a good magic phase!
Dispelling his magic shouldn't be the problem since he won't be that strong as I mentioned before.

The Engine is not worth the 50 points. lowering the casting value of a Lore is redundant since you can't use it for WD or HM. Burning alignment won't do much against WoC and needs to be FAQed anyways. The 6++ is nice but not worth 50 points.
The Ironcurse Icon is not usefull since he will have 1 Hell cannon at most, probably none, and your Slann should be in the Skirmisher Unit which isn't going to take many hits from it. It has it's use if you'd take TG but I don't recommend that. It's to expensive and will prevent you from taking an Ancient Steg which is far more useful imo. A smaller unit of TG will be ripped apart too easily.

 

[twistedmagpie]

Thanks again...I do want to use a lore rather than wandering deliberations. This is what I usually take - I do love the versatility, however I want to try out all the other lores - Metal seems like a good option for WoC.

So after all advice and a few decisions.....

Slann (BSB, Reservoir of Energy, Harmonic COnvergence)

Scar Vet (LA, Dragon Helm, Dawnstone, Cold One, GW, The other tricksters Shard)

Skink Priest (Discpel Scroll)

Saurus x 30 (FC)

Skirmishers x 10

SKirmishers x 10

Terradons x 3

Ancient Steggy (Sharpened horns & Unstoppable Stampede)

What do you think? i would have more terradons but I don't own them

 

[sorrowquin]

This looks like a far more potent list and I really like it!

It should give you superior maneuverability since your opponant will most likely have less units and thus you can hopefully dictate the game. In fact, this will is probably key to win.
The other Tricksters Shard is always a good choice against WoC and a nice addition.

If your opponant has flyers or a hell cannon don't forget to put you Slann in a unit of skirmishers and keep him out of harms way.

Taking lore of metal against WoC is solid, so if you wan't to try it, why not.
Here is what I think about the spells in this MU:

Searing Doom is a must have. Luckily you're guaranteed to get it =)

Nr1 spell (don't know the english name) is potent since WoC have good armor in generell and this spell is permanent. It also has low castingvalue, spam it! I'd probably start every magic phase with this spell since it might make your opponant use its dispell dice on it and if not that's also fine!

Aibans I would absolutely keep since it buffs your Saurus helping in that decisive combat.

Transmutation of the Lead:
-1 WS is just enough to make Warriors hit your Saurus on 4 (if I'm not mistaken, I think they have WS 4?) which helps you stay alive. Again -1 AS is also nice (although this one is not permanent).

Final Transmutation:
You can keep it if your opponant is fielding a big block of Warriors. On smaller blocks it's wasted imo due to the high casting value und Searing Doom being more efficiant.

Gehennas golden Hounds:
It's basically a second Searing Doom that you can't boost and with shorter range (which you can boost though but at a higher casting value). But since your opponant will probably try to dispell Searing Doom every magic phase you might want to keep it.

Nr. 3 spell is wasted since it doesn't stack with our own scaly skin.


GL =)