8th Ed. Help me out here: Questions regarding salamanders/Razordons

[Pinktaco]

I'd like to know the general opinion about the above mentioned monsters. The reason is that I'm a relatively new player (started last summer) and when I started I didn't quite like salamanders. Now they're more or less auto-include in most of my lists. But I still feel like I could use a little more information about them. The same goes for the razordons. The poor basta1ds have never been properly used in my lists and when I finally decides to use 6 of them (or something like that) something usually goes utterly wrong and even longer time goes before I add them again.

So.. instead of just asking about your general opinion about them I've made some questions for you to answer.

All the questions are about both the salamanders and Razordons:

How many units do you field of them?

How many models in each unit?

At what point do you deploy them (first, last?) and why?

Where do you generally deploy them (flank, middel?)

What are their main targets?

Are they generally succesful at that?

what else do you use them at?

Do you feel they part of the reason you win or could they easily be replaced by something more efficent?

Anything you'd like to add?

 

[Pofadder]

Re: Help me out here: Questions regarding salamanders/Razord

I will comment on salamanders only as I do not rate razordons (IMO).

Salamanders I normally field 2 units consisting of 1 or 1 unit consisting of 2.
If they are single they provide more threat points for the enemy to worry about.
They are extremely destructive versus most infantry blocks or even cavalry. They can be used to redirect enemy units to protect your more valuable units.

Shooting: Str4 flaming - teardrop template rules as per flamethrower thus a casualty caused will result in a panic test
I think many may agree that +- 6-8" away from enemy is the sweet spot for maximizing hits of template while still allowing safe distance for your sallie to flee etc

When it comes to combat the salamanders are monstrous beasts...thus have swiftstride for charging / fleeing. They cause fear if you remember to tell the opponent to roll for it They have stomp and each sallie 2 str 5 attacks

They are excellent targets for Walk between worlds or for Tetto'ekko's Vanguard special rule.

As mentioned earlier they can have various tactical uses.
But the bottom line is they are best used to weaken and deplete enemy infantry so you can have easier combat when the time comes. And that they can do very well if you can mange to keep them out of harms way.

Most enemy generals wants to kill them before they can spit searing death on their troops. Elves hates them with a passion...perfect sallie target, low T, low armor save, expensive models.

Hope you find your synergy with them, now go forth and melt elven faces aplenty!

 

[Pinktaco]

Re: Help me out here: Questions regarding salamanders/Razord

Funny you should mention elves.. a friend of mine just started a HE army

 

[n810]

Re: Help me out here: Questions regarding salamanders/Razord

Razordons:

How many units do you field of them?
1 or 2

How many models in each unit?
3 or more

At what point do you deploy them (first, last?) and why?
after skinks but before saurus and monsters

Where do you generally deploy them (flank, middel?)
flanks usualy, unless a better opertunity presents itself

What are their main targets?
chaf, lone characters, monsters, small units.

Are they generally succesful at that?
target saturation

what else do you use them at?
combat flankers, also they can hold up monstrous infantry or cav fo a while
(same as salamanders)

Do you feel they part of the reason you win or could they easily be replaced by something more efficent?
probaly, Razords are a jack of all trades unit.

Anything you'd like to add?
Don't forget razordons are cheeper than salamanders,
and they got rid of the penality they used to have.
now they get to reroll misses on a stand and shoot.

 

[Scalenex]

Re: Help me out here: Questions regarding salamanders/Razord

How many units do you field of them?

Razordons: As many as I feel like, usually 0-1
Salamanders: As many as I feel like, usually o-2


How many models in each unit?

Razordons: 2 or 3 (you need to insurance that if one misfires the other(s) will make up for it).
Salamanders 1 or 2 (since multiple burns means one panic test, little reason to go large units when two smaller units are an option)

At what point do you deploy them (first, last?) and why?

Razordons: I try to deploy them after the light fast troops are placed so as to intercept them.
Salamanders: I try to place them as close to last as possible to figure out where the Salamander vulnerable targets are.

Where do you generally deploy them (flank, middel?)

Razordons: They make a b-line for the enemy fast cavalry/fast cavalry equivalents, or they shadow the Salamander, or they go wherever they won't get in a heavy hitter's way. They can also screen big dinos from cannons if necessary (best anti-cannon unit we have between cheap cost and handler save). They tend to go on the flank a lot.

Salamanders: I try to find a place where they can burn something and avoid enemy cavalry. This is usually the flank.

What are their main targets?

Razordons: 1) fast cavalry and vanguard units 2) anything M4 they can safely peg at long range, 3) they charge into CC when I'm out of options. (1 and 2: troops that can't charge you > long shot charges > easy charges)

Salamanders: 1) Large blocks of low leadership troops with poor armor saves 2) medium blocks of medium leadership troops with medicre armor saves 3) they charge into CC when I'm out of options 1 and 2 (1 and 2: troops that can't charge you > long shot charges > easy charges)

Are they generally succesful at that?

Razordons: Razordons do best when fighting someone smaller than them or when staying out of range most of the game taking pot shots until they make a decisive flanking attack.

Salamanders: They do great when they can panic someone, mediocre when they can't.

what else do you use them at?

Close combat, cannon catchers

Do you feel they part of the reason you win or could they easily be replaced by something more efficent?

Razordons can be replaced by magic missile heavy Slann. I generally take them when a Slann is light on magic missiles. Razordon can be replaced by Skirmishers if your Core tax isn't going towards block infantry. Point for point I prefer Razordons over Skirmishers but Skirmishers but Skirmishers are Core points.

Salamanders can be replaced by nuke spells.

Both Razordons and Salamanders are unnecessary if your army is light on Skinks and focused on raw hitting power, Monster Mash or Predatory Armies.

Anything you'd like to add?[/quote]

I rarely take Salamanders without Razordons and visa versa. That has much to do with the fact that when I don't take these two guys, I eat my Rare allowance with bigger stuff and don't feel like taking a mere one or two warbeasts.