8th Ed. Having a pheonix Guard kind of problem.

[bladeoftides]

Relatively new player here, and having a TON of difficulty dealing with the Phoenix Guard my main opponent uses. They and the White lions seem to just annihilate anything and everything I field against them, especially with a banner he can take that gives the Lions a rediculous ward save versus non magic shooting. Got any advice for dealing with these rediculous units? I'd like to take a game off him eventually!*

 

[Stonecutter]

The Banner of World Dragon is vs magical attacks, not non-magical, so perhaps that is a typo. Here are my usual tactics vs the HE bunkers.

Phoenix Guard - Scar vet cowboy with 1+ re-rollable and OTS that is within range of the slaan can pin the front of the unit without taking much damage even if they have the AP banner, allowing a ranked unit to hit them in the flank and deny steadfast. With only 3-4 attacks, static res should do the rest and pursuit will run them down (hopefully).

White Lions - with S6, the SV cowboy will not work so well and this requires some effort to address. To begin with, sallies are gold even though the WL will get a 4+ AS against any wounds. On average, a couple well placed sallie templates will drop 10+ models so that will cut them down to a manageable size in short order. A double flanking is required to tackle the unit and I find that ranked skinks/skrox are best for this due to speed and mobility. Also, I would rather lose a 5 point skink to S6 than saurus or TG. A combo of steggie on one flank and ranked skinks also works as steggie will likely survive several rounds and his thunderstomp will add active CR while the skinks provide static at minimal cost and with only 3-4 lost to attacks per round while WL are ground down.

Magic - BoWD only works against wounding hits so hexes and buffs should be the focus of the magic phase. Heavens works really well since the spells are low casting values, skinks can cast them and multiple attempts per phase are possible for the signature. Even a single success means -1 to HE to hit and LD. If using high magic, casting unforging at the banner bearer will quickly draw out dispel dice, thereby allowing other spells to get through.

If all else fails, you can always sacrifice and redirect the units with skinks while killing off the rest of the army.

 

[Pinktaco]

Depending on your preference: saurus with spears, 7 wide with champ. If they charge you phoenix guards do 5 wounds to saurus warriors and you'll do 5 back. If he's 6 wide.
As others have said: couple that with an other trickster shard scar vets and you'll chop them up quickly.

Drop salamander templates on white lions. You won't have to stop many before templeguards be take them head on. Just give them quite a lotf shooting and they will fall. Templeguards might hit after them, but they'll do good on them. Use hexes/augments to tip the scale. Especially anything that reduce WS and To Hit so a wandering deliberation slann is good in that regard.

These are their elite units and if he have both he'll likely not have big units, meaning if you remove a chunk before combat they cannot win because of your superior numbers. If you have superior numbers dat is.

 

[owain_b]

The only problem with using a scar vet to hold up the phoenix guard is that if you get unlucky with your attacks and dont kill any (which is quite probable with the 4++) then you are loosing by 4 CR so are likely getting either ld4 or 5 to test on and if its 5 that is little better than 50:50 with the bsb re-rolls. You would be better off with an old blood, although you would have to invest an extra 100pts or there abouts you would be able to have the same build but with the crown of command. Now that guy would hold up the phoenix guard all day and some.

And I agree with Pinktaco, soften up the White Lions with salamanders and finish them off once there are a more managable size

 

[NexS1]

The Banner of World Dragon is vs magical attacks, not non-magical, so perhaps that is a typo. Here are my usual tactics vs the HE bunkers.

He may be referring to the everqueen's banner? I haven't got my HE book on me so I can't check.


Regarding the PG/WL issue, as a HE player here's my 2c:

Phoenix Guard:
Weak, but resilient. WS5, so will hit everything except our Oldbloods on 3's. Only S4, so they wound saurus warriors on 4's. I have an oldblood on cold one with sword of bloodshed to get +3 attacks at S5 which is enough for me. You'll never stop theirward save, so either go for maximum amount of attacks. Either that or weaken them with dwellers below or final transmutation. Then clean up.

White Lions:
High strength, low armour and toughness. They're stubborn, so you'll have to grind it out.
Take their high strength advantage away from them by feeding them skinks in a cohort. tie them up then flank them with saurus warriors. WL only have 1 attack each, without re-rolls, so iceshard blizzard or pha's protection will really ruin their day.


All in all, remember that Lizardmen aren't really great at anything except the slann with it's magic and the poison from skink javelins/blowpipes. You have to use magic to protect your units and make his life harder. Lizardmen on their own will struggle without proper support.