8th Ed. Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edition

[Putzfrau]

Re: Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edi

i think, like a lot of things in the book, they are usable but not ideal.

as others have already mentioned they tend to give up combat rez very easily and having a 150 point bastiladon with an ark doesn't help that much. especially when the solar engine, by comparison, is much better.

 

[Tecuani]

Re: Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edi

Having been playing with Tehenhauin as my general since the new book came out, I feel I can now confidently state that even unbreakable swarms are dreadful in 8th edition. Tehenhauin does a lot for the points, but even boosted by his presence the most the swarms have managed is minor attrition on units of similar or lower points cost before being ripped to shreds, dragging my level 3 caster down with them.
They remind me of skink skirmishers, in that their poison attacks aren't a cool bonus that makes them great, but a crutch to prevent them from being completely ineffectual, and in their case, it fails. I have no interest in checking just how worthless they become burdened with unstable as well.

 

[deeyo]

Re: Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edi

I have given them chance for a couple of games, what i found is they are very sitiuational. If you take 3 bases a unit or 2 unit of 2 bases, then boost them with a arc of sotek, they are a nice speed bump especially for low number of attack opponents.

In addition if you can charge them with an infantry block of yours to an enemy rank and file unit from their corner, they shine. They dont receive many attacks back since they are in the corner. Even add 1 or 2 CR themselves, in addition they add 1-2 Cr with poison rule they provide to your infantry unit. Also if you have Arc of sotek in play and in the combat rounds with 50% chance you can add another base which is 5 more wounds to the unit.

They are not overwhelming. They don't make your units incredibly dangerous. But they make your opponents think or get confused on whether to attack and kill swarms or your infantry block. They bring the synergy.

Also, they are usually overlooked by your opponent. For example; Ripperdactlys announce they are going rip appart an enemy unit at the beginning of the game. What i found is in reallity they don't rip appart as well, but opponents divert too many of their resources to cope with the possibility. Swarms, in contrast, don't attract attention at the start but when they start getting extra bases and when they enter a multiple combat, a challenging thinking process starts for the enemy.
17,5 ss for a 5 wound model is not much. Even you can take total of 145 ss with 4 bases and a arc of sotek.

Also i am not sure but, can they be cannon ball soak, as razardon's or salamenders are for a stegadon?

 

[Lizardmatt]

Re: Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edi

Swarms don't stop a bouncing ball.

IMO, I hope 9th edition just makes all swarms unbreakable. No swarm in the game right now is great; they are situational at best.

The problem with the swarms right now is that the unit is the same cost as a unit of 10 core skinks with poison.

The swarms are slower, weaker (S2), strike later (init1), don't have the 5+/6++ saves, and doesn't get 10 S3 poison quick to fire shots. The swarm cannot bait and flee, and dies to the last rather than having a chance to break and rally.
Also, as a special choice, the swarms don't help fill the 25% core requirement.

For all that, swarms give other units poison. In a lot of armies, that would be a big deal. In lizardmen, you have so much poison options that giving poison to another unit isn't that big of a deal.

In short, on their own, swarms are a bad choice. If you want, you can try really hard to make them viable, and hope to get the right match ups. But generally you'd just be better off taking dedicated units with poison and putting that unit on the enemy rather than trying to put a combo on an enemy.

-Matt

 

[deeyo]

Re: Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edi

I was sorry to hear that swarms dont stop cannon ball.

What my 2 cents was,
swarms are not good, 10 skirmisher skinks are more useful from start for the same point cost, skinks are even more durable in combat.

But swarms have a physcological factor in the combat which is not seen at the start of a game and they are not terribly bad if used correctly.

 

[Spiney Norman]

Re: Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edi

Having been playing with Tehenhauin as my general since the new book came out, I feel I can now confidently state that even unbreakable swarms are dreadful in 8th edition. Tehenhauin does a lot for the points, but even boosted by his presence the most the swarms have managed is minor attrition on units of similar or lower points cost before being ripped to shreds, dragging my level 3 caster down with them.
They remind me of skink skirmishers, in that their poison attacks aren't a cool bonus that makes them great, but a crutch to prevent them from being completely ineffectual, and in their case, it fails. I have no interest in checking just how worthless they become burdened with unstable as well.

Out of interest, since I am considering running Tehenhauin in my next game, how many bases did you put into the unit that accompanies him? I would guess at least 4-5, but I'm not sure. The truth is I love the idea of having the big critters as well as the little ones, but the reality is they just ain't all that.

 

[Mr Phat]

Re: Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edi

Just out of curiosity:

How does Swarms work in theory as a cannonball-wall?

 

[Spiney Norman]

Re: Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edi

Just out of curiosity:

How does Swarms work in theory as a cannonball-wall?

I'm pretty sure they don't, I thought it was only monsters, monstrous inf/cav that could stop the progress of a cannonball.

 

[Tecuani]

Re: Have any of you tried using the Jungle Swarms in 8th edi

Out of interest, since I am considering running Tehenhauin in my next game, how many bases did you put into the unit that accompanies him? I would guess at least 4-5, but I'm not sure. The truth is I love the idea of having the big critters as well as the little ones, but the reality is they just ain't all that.

Mostly four or five yes, which does seem to be the least useless unit size, though in my first game I did try fielding all eleven bases I have in one unit just for fun. Looked impressive on the battlefield, got destroyed in three rounds by a horde of squigs which sustained only minor damage in the process. Granted squig hordes are viscious things, but they're also quite vulnerable, and I'm pretty sure it was less points than all those swarms and Tehenhauin combined. Large units suffer from only being alloted one supporting attack on a 40mm base, and in 8th edition it isn't hard to inflict vast quantities of wounds on an unarmoured T2 target. Four or five is a better balance between cheapness, just enough wounds to occasionally take advantage of being unbreakable, and manouvrability. Even there, I'd say Tehenhauin is better used with a unit of saurus or temple guard, espescially since as a skink character he can counteract the crippling drawback to Predatory Fighter.