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GW News: LAS VEGAS OPEN 2025

- Q - said:
I like the one you posted more than the one that beat it in the contest:

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Gorgeous nonetheless
 
Ooh, classic-vintage Empire troops from the pre-pyjama days. Might have to grab one or two... Cripes, but they look so much nicer than the 8th Edition Empire State Troops. Much more professional and soldierly.
 
J.Logan said:
I think that comes down to limitations of human factions who have historic inspiration though. They either be 18th century inspired, like the Empire, or they be Classic Medieval era inspired, like the Bretonnians. Or they can muddle about somewhere in between... like the Dogs of War.
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Empire's more 16th Century to be honest... Italian Wars Landsknechts and the like.

But historically-inspired human factions can be from any period up to around the 17th Century, so there's loads of inspiration from Ancient and Dark Age civilisations to choose from. Indeed, I've been cooking up my own superior version of Tilea based on the one and only Roman Empire with a what-if slant on it. It's just that GW specifically think that the Old World has to be Medieval/Renaissance which places horribly-limited constraints on what design aesthetics to choose from.

J.Logan said:
Ooh, classic-vintage Empire troops from the pre-pyjama days. Might have to grab one or two... Cripes, but they look so much nicer than the 8th Edition Empire State Troops. Much more professional and soldierly.
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The current plastic Empire State Trooper models were first released in 7th Edition, but I know what you mean. They're horrible models, with deformed, barely-human faces, a militia-like appearance (which admittedly is more appropriate for the TOW era of the Empire being in a fully-fledged civil war) and hunched poses resulting from GW focusing on giving the kit a halberdier option without checking to see if the poses would look all right with the spear or sword options instead (which they really don't, especially in the case of the latter). To be honest I'd actually be pleased if GW released an updated set of sculpts for them down the line that bring them back in line with these old metal ones, or the 6th Edition plastics that looked so much more fitting for what GW want the Empire to be:
6th-edition-empire-state-troops-v0-vqjf241e5q2b1.jpg
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
Empire's more 16th Century to be honest... Italian Wars Landsknechts and the like.
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I think I said 18th century because the 1700s are the limit on your far forward the historical influences should go, in my mind. The moment you go 1800s I feel you've just crossed into the realm of too modern (not that I haven't cherry picked a couple of things from the earlier part of the century).

But you are right, 16th century is more in line for the Empire specifically. I just couldn't remember the exact century so I defaulted.

Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
6th Edition plastics
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I keep forgetting that there was a plastic set before the set you have now.
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
It's just that GW specifically think that the Old World has to be Medieval/Renaissance which places horribly-limited constraints on what design aesthetics to choose from.
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I think it's cuz pike & shot works well for a low-magic "regular" human faction in fantasy.
It's a nice mix of modern & classical. You get your absurd gunpowder contraptions and da vanci style wonderweapons next to some knights in plate and peasants with bows. The knights & peasants root your fantasy empire as "regular" humans; the gunpowder contraptions explain how they can put up a fight against dragons and other monsters despite being mostly just "regular" guys. Sure, the empire has demi-gryphs and wizards, but they're exceedingly rare (lore wise at least...). Most of their faction is just regular dudes.

Other era's/cultures tend to become more magical to compete with all the monsters (e.g. Aztec lizards, monstrous viking blessed by their dark gods, egyptian mummies, slavs and their witches, blessed french knights, Wallachian vampires, mongolian ogres, ...)

I would be surprised if you could turn the romans into something that works without needing to throw in a ton of magical nonsense. For example; the hell are legionaires supposed to do against an ogres. Throw their pila to kill a few and then immeadiatly get overwhelmed by the remaining ogres cuz all they have left is a tiny gladius?
 
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Canas said:
I would be surprised if you could turn the romans into something that works without needing to throw in a ton of magical nonsense. For example; the hell are legionaires supposed to do against an ogres. Throw their pilums to kill a few and then immeadiatly get overwhelmed by the remaining ogres cuz all they have left is a tiny gladius?
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If I were doing the Romans (or if I ever actually do my Byzantine idea - oh wait, they've made an appearance in my fic now *toot toot* :p), I'd go a similar rough to our evil Vikings, they are divinely blessed, just by the Gods of Law rather than Chaos. That's right, I'mma bring back that old idea. Important to note is that the Gods of Law aren't a GOOD force, they are far too rigid to be a true force for good. So, it gives a reason for them to be opposed to our typically heroic factions. Especially if they pull the smug "WE are the true civilised peoples, who follow the true laws as defined by the true gods. You are barbarians" attitude.

Though with the Byzantines, their "ordinary" humans would be mercenaries hired on to bolster their numbers.
 
J.Logan said:
If I were doing the Romans (or if I ever actually do my Byzantine idea - oh wait, they've made an appearance in my fic now *toot toot* :p), I'd go a similar rough to our evil Vikings, they are divinely blessed, just by the Gods of Law rather than Chaos. That's right, I'mma bring back that old idea. Important to note is that the Gods of Law aren't a GOOD force, they are far too rigid to be a true force for good. So, it gives a reason for them to be opposed to our typically heroic factions. Especially if they pull the smug "WE are the true civilised peoples, who follow the true laws as defined by the true gods. You are barbarians" attitude.
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Which is an elvish archetype. Especially the whole "we are the only civilised ones" thing :p
 
Canas said:
Which is an elvish archetype. Especially the whole "we are the only civilised ones" thing :p
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Who says that Elves can't be victims to people throwing their own attitudes back at them? :-P
 
Canas said:
I would be surprised if you could turn the romans into something that works without needing to throw in a ton of magical nonsense. For example; the hell are legionaires supposed to do against an ogres. Throw their pila to kill a few and then immeadiatly get overwhelmed by the remaining ogres cuz all they have left is a tiny gladius?
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I think you've forgotten how the Romans pretty much supercharged Ancient Greek siege weapon developments into a range of different war machines used religiously across various theatres of battle to great success - the Scorpion being the most popular and being one of the first known documented classic Bolt Thrower archetypes that also revolutionised the idea in being a two-man portable weapon team device, along with Ballistas which, despite the name, functioned more like elastic-powered cannons firing massive stone balls at buildings and the like. That on its own is a fair amount to deal with the various monstrous threats of the Old World... if one then applies my what-if idea of Rome at its peak surviving on for many centuries longer than it did, gifting it with many more centuries for potential innovation and ideas, then not only does that offer the chance to evolve these existing machines to make them all the deadlier, but it also gives the opportunity for wackier and more fantastical interpretations of Roman siege engineering to materialise - fire throwers, perhaps, Da Vinci-esque tanks without being hampered by the fractious, overly-Christian stupidity of 99% of Renaissance Italy... it opens up a lot of possibilities to add the 'fantasy' element to the force to make it more 'Warhammer'.
 
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Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
I think you've forgotten how the Romans pretty much supercharged Ancient Greek siege weapon developments into a range of different war machines used religiously across various theatres of battle to great success -
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I am aware the Romans were masters of classical siege weapons.
The main issue is that basicly every faction in WHF that has any sort of technology has at minimum classical era siege weapons.
And sure, maybe a roman scorpion is better than an greenskin bolt throwa, but it's not going to give the same advantage as a hellstorm battery gives when fighting orcs.

Also, minor sidenote; elves in warhammer tend to have greek/roman inspiration (among other things). They still need their magic, superhuman ability, and immortality to stand up against the various monsters.

Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
if one then applies my what-if idea of Rome at its peak surviving on for many centuries longer than it did, gifting it with many more centuries for potential innovation and ideas, then not only does that offer the chance to evolve these existing machines to make them all the deadlier, but it also gives the opportunity for wackier and more fantastical interpretations of Roman siege engineering to materialise - fire throwers, perhaps, Da Vinci-esque tanks without being hampered by the fractious, overly-Christian stupidity of 99% of Renaissance Italy... it opens up a lot of possibilities to add the 'fantasy' element to the force to make it more 'Warhammer'.
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I'm not sure if I'd still count that as Roman empire if you give them several centuries of innovation. That just sounds like renaissance italian city states with a dash of roman flavour.
 
Canas said:
The main issue is that basicly every faction in WHF that has any sort of technology has at minimum classical era siege weapons.
And sure, maybe a roman scorpion is better than an greenskin bolt throwa, but it's not going to give the same advantage as a hellstorm battery gives when fighting orcs.
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Innovate them to have Greek Fire in some capacity; mind you, I haven't yet fathomed what the renaming of Greek Fire would be; the closest we have to Greece in WFB that I know of is Ulthuan (though it is closer to Atlantis), and calling it "Elf Fire", "Ulthuan Fire" or "Donut Fire" doesn't quite ring right. Caledorian Fire might be a hit, but I'm reasonably sure the Princes of Caledor are the kind of dicks that would take personal issue about their name being applied to something not actually theirs.
 
J.Logan said:
Innovate them to have Greek Fire in some capacity; mind you, I haven't yet fathomed what the renaming of Greek Fire would be; the closest we have to Greece in WFB that I know of is Ulthuan (though it is closer to Atlantis), and calling it "Elf Fire", "Ulthuan Fire" or "Donut Fire" doesn't quite ring right. Caledorian Fire might be a hit, but I'm reasonably sure the Princes of Caledor are the kind of dicks that would take personal issue about their name being applied to something not actually theirs.
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Greek fire definitly helps. Though I don't think it's enough on its own. Especially in a world where alchemy and magic is a thing anyway.
It's a shame we also don't really have much information on greek fire.

Course there's also some other supposed ancient "scientific" weapons that could be interesting, like archimedes mirrors. But that's more mythological than historical.
 
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