GW News: LAS VEGAS OPEN 2025

[Killer Angel]

Too many factions then?

That's only marginally the problem.
Currently there are 24 armies in AoS.
In Whfb there were... 16? (including chaos dwarfs but not things as dogs of war, kislev and similar)

1/3 more enhances the issue but the releases bloat (not merely of battletomes) is a problem. Plus, the usual disparity of treatment.

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Khorne and Tzeentch are bound to be the Chaos books, yes? Or would they be updating Slaanesh already?

Tzeentch has already been updated for this edition, so it would just be Khorne and Slaanesh left for Grand Alliance Chaos.

What about the Order books? Seraphon, Kharadron Overlords, and Cities of Sigmar are all possible. I will guess KO in spring and CoS in summer.

Eh, probably wouldn't be far off. I'd kind of hope that CoS get updated sooner given the teasers they gave earlier this year, but who knows.

With that said, I'm expecting the 3rd Edition Seraphon battletome to be drastically toned down compared to its 2nd Ed version, albeit preferably with a unit expansion (I honestly don't care if it's just duplication with the original Starborn/Coalesced rules baked in to the respective warscrolls) such that the cost, stats, and abilities of Starborn units don't impact how Coalesced use their own version of the same units.

 

[Just A Skink]

Tzeentch has already been updated for this edition, so it would just be Khorne and Slaanesh left for Grand Alliance Chaos.

Eh, probably wouldn't be far off. I'd kind of hope that CoS get updated sooner given the teasers they gave earlier this year, but who knows.

With that said, I'm expecting the 3rd Edition Seraphon battletome to be drastically toned down compared to its 2nd Ed version, albeit preferably with a unit expansion (I honestly don't care if it's just duplication with the original Starborn/Coalesced rules baked in to the respective warscrolls) such that the cost, stats, and abilities of Starborn units don't impact how Coalesced use their own version of the same units.

Maybe Seraphon are in line for a fall/winter 2022 release? I think our book would be the only one left after the revealed roadmap. I hope Seraphon aren't too toned down. I can't win any games with our current book, ha ha!

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Maybe Seraphon are in line for a fall/winter 2022 release? I think our book would be the only one left after the revealed roadmap. I hope Seraphon aren't too toned down. I can't win any games with our current book, ha ha!

I personally doubt it. Based on how 3rd Edition has been rolling out with each faction so far, Seraphon will most likely be saying good bye to any and all subfaction-specific warlord traits and artefacts, and each subfaction will be limited to one special rule each. If you want to see a good example of this, take a look at Orruk Warclans sometime.

The biggest issue with Seraphon right now is that, apart from being a relic of 2nd Edition, its unit roster is trying to do too many things at once across all subfactions and not accomplishing any of them well. Summoning shenanigans in just one subfaction for instance utterly dominates the material concerns of at least two others, leaving many players with little option but to keep taking units that continuously get jacked up in points cost specifically because they're the only ones worth taking in your starting army.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

GW also showed us the roadmap for AoS book releases.

Khorne and Tzeentch are bound to be the Chaos books, yes? Or would they be updating Slaanesh already?

Tzeentch has already been updated for this edition, so it would just be Khorne and Slaanesh left for Grand Alliance Chaos.

What he said

Eh, probably wouldn't be far off. I'd kind of hope that CoS get updated sooner given the teasers they gave earlier this year, but who knows.

Nah, I don't think Cities of Skubmar will get an update until they release the new kits for them, and given teases for them have been as glacial as those for TOW, I wouldn't be surprised if they release the CoS book when TOW arrives, so that they can immediately port over all the remaining Empire, Dwarf and Elf kits over to the TOW page. I'd definitely say it'll be Kharadron and Lizardmen that are getting the two Order books in this schedule.

With that said, I'm expecting the 3rd Edition Seraphon battletome to be drastically toned down compared to its 2nd Ed version, albeit preferably with a unit expansion (I honestly don't care if it's just duplication with the original Starborn/Coalesced rules baked in to the respective warscrolls) such that the cost, stats, and abilities of Starborn units don't impact how Coalesced use their own version of the same units.

The Third Edition Lizardmen book should have more of a focus on giving all units a good use in the army, rather than GW's continuing dumb obsession with Skinks.

 

[Killer Angel]

The Third Edition Lizardmen book should have more of a focus on giving all units a good use in the army, rather than GW's continuing dumb obsession with Skinks.

Especially given how unbalanced is our book when it comes to the percentage of warscrolls employed in tournaments' lists.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Currently there are 24 armies in AoS.
In Whfb there were... 16? (including chaos dwarfs but not things as dogs of war, kislev and similar)

So a 50% increase in the number of armies AND a shorter release/edition cycle (a new AoS edition every three years as opposed to four or five for WFB). Those two things compound. More army books to be released in a shorter period of time.

That said, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, some people might enjoy the frequent release schedule. As a personal preference though, it just isn't my cup of tea. It's definitely something that would instantly turn me away from TOW.

but the releases bloat (not merely of battletomes) is a problem.

What other releases? Are they merely optional supplements or core additions to the game?

. Plus, the usual disparity of treatment.

Nothing new there. Heck, it was probably much worse under WFB (Brettonia anyone?)

 

[Killer Angel]

What other releases? Are they merely optional supplements or core additions to the game?

i would say core addition.
The core rules (3.0 edition) are the same, however there are:
1. Faq / errata / designer's commentary (every 3 months i believe) that address certain mechanics, so they may alter the way certain units are employed every once in a while.
2. Balance updates: rewrite of some abilities plus points adjustments. Again, this impacts on lists making on a more or less regular basis.
3. Season of War (each year?). This is the biggest one: while keeping the same core rules, these are additions to how the game must be played in matched play. With the previous one monsters were kings, they were able to collect additional victory points, there was a specific list of battle tactics that you needed to achieve to gain additional victory points (other than the mere objective control). Now with the current season the battle tactics are completely different and troops are the ones that gain advantages, while monsters loses their momentum. This mean that, within the same rules set and with the same battletomes, the way you play the game is completely different, because now you need to do different things with different units. It's a sort of way to refresh the game without changing the core rules but nonetheless it means you must follow the changes.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

. This mean that, within the same rules set and with the same battletomes, the way you play the game is completely different, because now you need to do different things with different units. It's a sort of way to refresh the game without changing the core rules but nonetheless it means you must follow the changes.

It also means that you need to own just about every model in an army in order to maintain competitive viability.

How much AoS do you play? Do you find the release rate to be a blessing or a curse? Or something in-between? Would you want TOW to follow a different schedule of release?

 

[Killer Angel]

How much AoS do you play? Do you find the release rate to be a blessing or a curse? Or something in-between? Would you want TOW to follow a different schedule of release?

1. Lately not that much, i play avery once in a while as i'm focused mainly on 40k. IMO AoS in its first days was kinda an awful game, then it slowly but surely improved. Better rules, better mechanics, a developing lore... even tactically it was a good game (where old WHFB could doom you for a wrong set-up, in AoS the punishment arrived if you weren't careful in your normal move during the turns). But lately i find the game to be bloated with exceptions to the rules, too many things that break core mechanics, fixes / patches that only worsen the situation, points adjustments made with no comprehension of the real issues...

2. the release rate is frankly excessive, they should try to find a mid ground between the current one and what was in WHFB

3. If TOW follows the same pace of AoS, i doubt it will lure many old style players (which should be the main target). So i really hope the schedule will be slower.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

How much AoS do you play? Do you find the release rate to be a blessing or a curse? Or something in-between? Would you want TOW to follow a different schedule of release?

3. If TOW follows the same pace of AoS, i doubt it will lure many old style players (which should be the main target). So i really hope the schedule will be slower.

To be honest I think we should just keep an eye on what's going on with the Horus Heresy, as boring as the models for that game are, because as a 'legacy' game TOW will likely follow in its footsteps in terms of how much attention GW are intending to give it. The releases for this game have been a steady trickle so far, not nearly as much as AoS and 40K but arguably more than Middle-Earth and definitely more than specialist games like Aeronautica Imperialis, which sounds promising for TOW.

Certainly there hasn't been any sign of any pointless 'compulsory' yearly scenario books yet either, though to be sure we'll have to look out for what GW does with this game next year.

 

[pawl]

As promised, here's a list of expected retailer prices so you can save a few more pennies. I'll try to keep it updated, but no promises because I'm a nightmare!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

2. the release rate is frankly excessive, they should try to find a mid ground between the current one and what was in WHFB

What worries me in this regards as the adding of new armies. The more armies that make up TOW, the more releases need to be crammed in for any given edition cycle. WFB already had 16 armies and we know that Kislev and Cathay are likely to join this tally. Throw in a few more armies and we are left with one of the following:

• a frantic release schedule
• a release schedule where some armies are largely forgotten/ignored
• a really long edition cycle

To be honest I think we should just keep an eye on what's going on with the Horus Heresy, as boring as the models for that game are, because as a 'legacy' game TOW will likely follow in its footsteps in terms of how much attention GW are intending to give it. The releases for this game have been a steady trickle so far, not nearly as much as AoS and 40K but arguably more than Middle-Earth and definitely more than specialist games like Aeronautica Imperialis, which sounds promising for TOW.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Games like Warhammer Underworlds (with their constant "edition" releases) are also pretty hectic when it comes to releases. You might be right though that the Horus Heresy might be the best analog for TOW, which would work out nicely for the new game.

Certainly there hasn't been any sign of any pointless 'compulsory' yearly scenario books yet either, though to be sure we'll have to look out for what GW does with this game next year.

That is a promising outlook.

 

[Canas]

the release rate is frankly excessive, they should try to find a mid ground between the current one and what was in WHFB

Honestly, the simplest fix would be to release more at once instead of this constant barrage over a prolonged time.
So instead of releasing 1 book every two months, release all of them at the start of the year.
Or better yet, have all the updated tomes ready and release them all at once when you update versions once every 4-5 years or so.

Sure it'd be a lot at once, but at least it'd give you some time to actually process the new releases.

However, this isn't going to chance. This constant barrage of releases gives a nice constant flow of income. It's a very basic sales tactic, and one that's become super popular over the past decade or so with everyone basically trying to copy the SaaS model into every single industry they can.

 

[Sebbs]

Honestly, the simplest fix would be to release more at once instead of this constant barrage over a prolonged time.
So instead of releasing 1 book every two months, release all of them at the start of the year.
Or better yet, have all the updated tomes ready and release them all at once when you update versions once every 4-5 years or so.

Sure it'd be a lot at once, but at least it'd give you some time to actually process the new releases.

However, this isn't going to chance. This constant barrage of releases gives a nice constant flow of income. It's a very basic sales tactic, and one that's become super popular over the past decade or so with everyone basically trying to copy the SaaS model into every single industry they can.

There's fads that come and go even in business management, previously everyone was fawning over lean production and Six Sigma (Just In Time). No one was allowed to keep any inventory. That might be a well and true way to increase effectiveness for some sectors (even GW) but for others they spell disaster. Next step is you'll have to subscribe to be able to use your minis like the BMW seat-heat, Tesla range extender, the new Care by Volvo. Joke aside though, it would be preferable if they kept a little more focus on one game system every other year but that wouldn't generate as much sales I guess.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Next step is you'll have to subscribe to be able to use your minis like the BMW seat-heat, Tesla range extender, the new Care by Volvo.

Surely not even GW could be this stupid? That would turn away swathes of customers from playing at their stores. GW Hobby Centres are not theme parks for goodness sake, you shouldn't need to pay an admission just to play in a a shop-run event. There would be a mass exodus of players from their GW stores to their nearest LGSs and wargames clubs (though it would be great for the LGSs and clubs mind).

It's bad enough seeing these evil streaming services rise to power through this scummy Ferengi tactic, we cannot allow this to poison other aspects of life as well, or else we'll eventually get to a point where you can do virtually nothing without paying a subscription fee. It'll be just like Ferenginar where you have to pay just to sit in a waiting room.

This stops now.

 

[Canas]

Surely not even GW could be this stupid? That would turn away swathes of customers from playing at their stores. GW Hobby Centres are not theme parks for goodness sake, you shouldn't need to pay an admission just to play in a a shop-run event. There would be a mass exodus of players from their GW stores to their nearest LGSs and wargames clubs (though it would be great for the LGSs and clubs mind).

I mean, there's people trying to push the subscription model into everything, from software to cars. And not enough people seem to mind.
So I wouldn't be surprised if they tried

On the bright side; wargaming is easy enough to organize yourself that people might actually walk away from the predatory pricing models for once

 

[Lord-Marcus]

I've noticed a critical issue and now I'm sad.

The new chameleon skinks from sundered fate don't have poisonous frog buddies attached to them.

 

[Imrahil]

Yea, we get a miniature of the month.... a single skink...

https://www.warhammer-community.com...goff-rocker-with-two-retail-coins-this-month/

Grrr, !mrahil

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Yea, we get a miniature of the month.... a single skink...

https://www.warhammer-community.com...goff-rocker-with-two-retail-coins-this-month/

Grrr, !mrahil

Surely it couldn't have been asking much for them to give us a Saurus instead?

Proof that Skinks are GW's favourite.