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8th Ed. Frenzied Cold One Riders!

Wistrel
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Wistrel

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So I was wondering if I take 9 Cold One Riders, with a mounted vet BSB with the skavenpelt banner, would it be one of the rare cases where the mounts would get frenzy too?

If this is the case then on the charge you would get 23 strength 5 attacks (vet and champ included) and 15 strength 4 attacks! which is one hell of a hammer! :bored:

Otherwise its 'just' 23 strength 5 attacks and 10 strength 4, which is still great.
 
You'll want another hero with the mask of Eee!
After all, you'd already have Fear, Frenzy, Hatred, Stupidity and Immune to Psychology, you might as well toss in another special rule.

-Matt
 
Well I also have a High Slann and a beasts skink priest in my army, so either hand of glory or wyssans wildform will have a great effect on their combat effectiveness
 
I'm not sure how you are getting 25 attacks.
I assume 5 wide
Base=15 from rider (front rank ands second rank) and 10 from mount
Frenzied=5 more from front rank rider (second rank cannot get it because of the supporting attack rule) and 5 more from front rank mounts.
thats only 20 from rider and 15 from mount.
 
Dragonrage5454 said:
I'm not sure how you are getting 25 attacks.
I assume 5 wide
Base=15 from rider (front rank ands second rank) and 10 from mount
Frenzied=5 more from front rank rider (second rank cannot get it because of the supporting attack rule) and 5 more from front rank mounts.
thats only 20 from rider and 15 from mount.
Click to expand...

He was including a scar vet in his numbers I believe.

For a full on Cav bus, I would try to fit in an Oldblood with the Blade of Realities. That probably means no-Slann, but you could do two Oldbloods, two or three Level 2 Beasts priests, and still probably another 2 scar-vets to round out the front rank of your bus. Imagine casting a powered-up Savage Beast of Horros near that unit... you'd pump out 8 strength 8 attacks per Oldblood and 7 strength 8 attacks per Scar Vet. So 30 strength 8 attacks PLUS on every 6 you roll you'll get another attack. You'd also have a few copies of Wyssan's Wildform running around at the very least, and so you could probably get at least one of those through per phase. I'd probably not take spears on the Cold One Riders to save some points, with the plan that the unit will be buffed with Wyssan's frequently, giving everyone strength 5 anyway.
 
Cold one riders are a waste of points if they are in two ranks. It is too expensive to pay for the models in the second rank just so they can grant 1 supporting attack. Each model has 4 attacks, you are losing sooo much.

They are much more effective in two units rather than one large unit.


Anyway, try out your theory. Get that frenzy banner, crush that one unit and then get flanked on the overrun and GG.
 
Drmooreflava said:
Cold one riders are a waste of points if they are in two ranks. It is too expensive to pay for the models in the second rank just so they can grant 1 supporting attack. Each model has 4 attacks, you are losing sooo much.

They are much more effective in two units rather than one large unit.


Anyway, try out your theory. Get that frenzy banner, crush that one unit and then get flanked on the overrun and GG.
Click to expand...

That's why you take a big unit, you are buying yourself extra wounds to help the unit last. You will always put the stubborn crown on somebody, and have a BSB. On flank charges, all of your characters can "make way" so that they can fight. In fact, it is entirely possible that when the unit is flanked, the opponent will be unable to target anything but characters, and also you get to choose which characters make their way over. Messing with your formation so that you minimize flankers would be essential.
 
lol... I can imagine two oldbloods one with steg helm the other a 1+ reroll armour and ward making way...

Its like "ahhhh bosss.... who should we attack"

"the weak one dammit... aaaarrrrgggghhhh"

Even just a wildform on them with either a decent extra attack weapon or something and they would be pumping out anywhere from 12-16 attacks between them and then PF attacks as well. :D
 
you are still paying 30+ points for extra wounds... It isn't like they are inner circle knights with 1+ AS and only 1 attack per rider/mount. You pay the 30 pts for 4 attacks, not for 1 attack, it is not utilizing cold one cav properly.

So, again, take that frenzy banner and watch two high elf eagles bait your 500+ pts unit out of the battle.

It is not sound tactics to put your general and bsb in a frenzied cav unit... You'll find your leadership and rerolls on the wrong side of the table while the rest of your army is dealt with.

It sounds like a powerful deathstar type unit; however, any warhammer player that has moderate experience knows how to deal with frenzied deathstars and how to make you look like a fool in front of your friends.

For the third time, take that frenzied banner, go deathstar your cold one cav and then come back here and ask us why you lost. Or how to prevent your unit from being baited.
 
Drmooreflava said:
you are still paying 30+ points for extra wounds... It isn't like they are inner circle knights with 1+ AS and only 1 attack per rider/mount. You pay the 30 pts for 4 attacks, not for 1 attack, it is not utilizing cold one cav properly.

So, again, take that frenzy banner and watch two high elf eagles bait your 500+ pts unit out of the battle.

It is not sound tactics to put your general and bsb in a frenzied cav unit... You'll find your leadership and rerolls on the wrong side of the table while the rest of your army is dealt with.

It sounds like a powerful deathstar type unit; however, any warhammer player that has moderate experience knows how to deal with frenzied deathstars and how to make you look like a fool in front of your friends.

For the third time, take that frenzied banner, go deathstar your cold one cav and then come back here and ask us why you lost. Or how to prevent your unit from being baited.
Click to expand...

Target saturation, before they redirect your frenzying cavalry they have to deal with your Rippers.
 
I'd just like to point out that having a cold one unit with an extra rank you are far more likely to be able to break steadfast on a unit with a charge into the flank. This is something I used to do quite regularly with the old lizard book. Being able to break and run down a big block has always been preferable to me than slowly grinding the result out, especially as I never played the seemingly ubiquitous Life Slaan, preferring shadows, light death or even heavens to life.

It is going to be a "sub-optimal" army set up, but when it worked it was absolutely devastating and I was able to pull it off more often than not. Now that they cheaper I am happily going to continue to use them in that way.
 
First off, anyone who sees rippers as a bigger threat than 500+ pts of saurus cav/characters must be friggen blind. Oh wait, I have to deal with rippers? LOL, frenzy check dat 5 ld shiz while your 500+ pt unit with general and bsb just got baited off the table edge... If anything your rippers depend on your cold one cav for LD/reroll to not charge the closest unit.

Next... Anyone who gets flanked by cold one cav, doesn't know how to warhammer. Cold ones have to pursue now, and with the frenzy banner they have to overrun. Break that steadfast bro, let your opponent keep pulling you into a trap. If your opponent knows how to deal with this unit and has the capabilities to execute the maneuvering, you are screwed. It isn't hard to counter.

I know, I wish that cold one cav could operate like inner circle knights too. The frenzy banner is cute, but against experienced opponents, it hurts more than it helps. They just don't have what it takes. They are a 5 to 7 man squad that rolls in like cowboys, beats up flankers or light infantry and hopefully survives to kill a warmachine or flank a unit late game.

This kind of depends on your meta too but generally, a unit this expensive with such large weaknesses is a single minded approach to an army list.
 
novatomato said:
I'd just like to point out that having a cold one unit with an extra rank you are far more likely to be able to break steadfast on a unit with a charge into the flank. This is something I used to do quite regularly with the old lizard book. Being able to break and run down a big block has always been preferable to me than slowly grinding the result out, especially as I never played the seemingly ubiquitous Life Slaan, preferring shadows, light death or even heavens to life.

It is going to be a "sub-optimal" army set up, but when it worked it was absolutely devastating and I was able to pull it off more often than not. Now that they cheaper I am happily going to continue to use them in that way.
Click to expand...

If you lose 1 model in a 10man unit, you are only 1 rank anyway. It ain't worth **** to have 1 extra rank of 30pt models.
 
Imho its not that a knight bus cannot work...It can, but a frenzied unit requires more babysitting, when that 500point unit reaches the end of the battle and have been led by the nose by 50p chaff units like eagles or chaos pups etc then you start thinking maybe I could have played something that could have supported my other troops better.

And yes you can prevent the unwanted charge, just park a swarm, unit of terradons etc in front of them to prevent legal charge targets, but once again too much babysitting.

Imho at least Rippers have fly rule and more is agile thus you fly them out, face away from all enemies and round after get behind his lines and position to get to your target. This can be done with CoC too, but ofc flyers are better at the flanking. Also I will play a unit of 3 and it is way cheaper.

Other thing... one lore of metal spell could leave you very unhappy!

I will play them but probs just as a 5 vanilla unit...cheap and nasty
 
Why would you waste a 500 point unit in the flanks?

If i had a blender oldblood with a couple or cowboys or more I would run straight up the field and chew through the toughest looking unit there... this wouldnt work against OnG or skaven... but anything else that doesnt have 35+ models in the unit will break after the 2nd round of combat... and if they flank you... who cares. make way to the side and have them striking T5 or T6 1 and 2+ armour save models with ward saves that chew inf and characters alike.

Short of a massive chaos lord or vamp count you wont see too many combat fighters to equal them.
 
First, Frenzy is not a huge liability at Ld8 cold-blooded, especially if the BSB is in the unit.

Second, I have used Cold One Cavalry effectively under the old book rules, and they have only gotten better and cheaper (not only -1 point per model with spears, but -20 points for full command). Are they a perfect unit? Absolutely not. But they can be quite effective, especially with character support. I have not yet tried the Skevenpelt Banner, but I definitely will.
 
It's also something to point out that this isn't a new Meta Build, just a "Hey this would be funny" build.

Just 'cuz it isn't "the-best-of-the-best" doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to play.
 
IronJaw said:
It's also something to point out that this isn't a new Meta Build, just a "Hey this would be funny" build.

Just 'cuz it isn't "the-best-of-the-best" doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to play.
Click to expand...

Heck, that unit would be fun to play even without the frenzy banner, just have a tooled up BSB. I'd want two Oldbloods, one a total tank, and the other with the Blade of Realities. Back them up with two level 2 Beasts Skink priests, and then the BSB and hopefully one more Scar Vet Cowboy. In Core, go with two meaty units of skrox. And back everything up with a Troglodon! Might be a case where the roar is actually useful, since all those kroxigors and saurus characters would get some extra attacks. Would be devastating.
 
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