8th Ed. Food For Thought

[lordkingcrow]

Hey Everyone,

So I spotted this on Bugmans and figured I'd post it here. I know it's not "official" GW, but it's interesting nonetheless.

https://docs.google.com/a/lagrandesd.org/document/d/1uwnJITCr2A7xXA0sg8dOU-Fj1Gdy_OJPuzwO-6UkvMI/edit

Thoughts...?

 

[n810]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uwnJITCr2A7xXA0sg8dOU-Fj1Gdy_OJPuzwO-6UkvMI/edit#

27 Lizardmen

27.1 When can Bolt thrower single shots hit characters in Temple Guard or Skink-Kroxigor Cohorts? (var) The bolt hits the model closest to the bolt thrower with the Guardian rule (TG) or that is a non-character model (Skink-Krox). If killed, the bolt penetrates to the model directly behind the model killed
in the same file. If shot from flank, to the next model in the same rank. Any characters on the path will
be hit. If two different models are both directly behind a killed Kroxigor, randomize which is hit.
27.2 Predatory Fighter (p30)
Supporting attacks do not benefit from this special rule.
27.3. Can Slann join skirmishers? (p31) Yes. He’s not mounted, despite the Palanquin.
27.4 What is the unit type of a mixed Skink & Kroxigor Cohort? (p38) Infantry. Infantry characters get a Look Out Sir! roll. Note that the Dreaded 13th spell may not kill any Kroxigor.
27.5 Can characters mounted on Terradons or Ripperdactyls join units of either type? (p42,43) No.
27.6 If both players have Blot Toad Rage counters, how are they placed? (p43)
Both players write the units down and reveal simultaneously.
27.7 Stegadon Howdah rules seem to conflict with the Ridden Monster rules when a skink character mounts a Stegadon. Do Howdah rules apply to characters? (p45) No. They only apply to non-character skinks. Characters use normal Ridden Monster rules, meaning the skink does not have an unmodifiable 3+/4+ armor and can be targeted separately in close combat.
27.8 Engine of Gods spell is Direct Damage. Does it only target units in the front arc? (p45)
No. It targets all enemies in range, but not those in close combat.
27.9 Can Tik Taq'To join Terradon riders? (p58)
Yes, but only him and only Terradon Riders (not other flying characters and not Ripperdactyls).
27.10 Can you use Contemplation to forget a spell that was lost due to Power Drain? (p60) No.
27.11 Disciplines of the Old Ones (p61) Focus of Mystery will only give a Slann Mage-Priest spells from High Magic (he can not generate spells from another lore as well).
27.12 Does the Piranha Blade confer Multiple Wounds and Armour Piercing to any attack? (p62)
No, only close combat attacks made with the Piranha Blade have those Special Rules.
27.13 Does Egg of Quango gain Armor Piercing from Razor Standard? (p63) Yes.

 

[Maazie]

Seems pretty solid and makes sense.

 

[Scalenex]

I support the initiative, but I don't like half of them. I would say this was written by someone trying to be fair but with a subconscious bias against LM. In my opinion, I would change about half of them.

I would am slightly biased in favor of letting PF apply to supporting attacks. The arguments for and against it seem balanced, so the tie breaker is I don't want to roll two sets of dice and slow down combat but I don't care enough about that one to fight for it. Still anything that slows down play slightly should be avoided.

I do not see why Tiq'tak'to can join a unit of Terradon riders but Terradon riding Skink Chiefs cannot. I believe flying Skink Chiefs should be able to join a unit of Terradons or Rippers if their mount matches (no mixed units). That seems needlessly restrictive to do it the other way.

I think since the Stegadon Helm and Pirahna Blade are listed consecutively they were intended to stack.

I don't see why LM players in a mirror matchup wouldn't roll off for first blot toad "deployment" much like Scouts. Pencil and paper isn't normally required for a WHF game and the fact that both players have a different left and right and that one player might have repetitive units there is potential for minor confusion which will slow things down without enhancning game play.

EDIT: I think if you take away the ability of Burning Alignment to hit units in close combat, it becomes very weak.

 

[Chicken Lips]

27.1 - This seems fair. Keep as written.

27.2 - I actually agree with this. PF shouldn't confer to the second rank the same way as only the front rank of Frenzied units gain an extra attack.

27.3 - I agree with this.

27.4 - I agree with this.

27.5 - I agree with this, but generic Skink characters should have the option of riding either.

27.6 - They should roll off to see who reveals first.

27.7 - I don't agree with this one. The AB special rules should trump the rules in the BRB.

27.8 - I agree with this.

27.9 - TikTaqTo and characters mounted on the same monster type as the unit they wish to join, should be able to do so.

27.10 - I agree with this.

27.11 - I am undecided on this one. Could go either way for me.

27.12 - I don't see why Armor Piercing shouldn't stack with the effects of the Piranha Blade. If a Runesmith is in a unit with a character who has a runic weapon, that character would still get the effects of his weapon as well as armor piercing just from being in the same unit as the Runesmith. They stack, so why wouldn't AP stack with the Piranha Blade?

27.13 - I agree with this.

 

[Agrem]

27.2 - I actually agree with this. PF shouldn't confer to the second rank the same way as only the front rank of Frenzied units gain an extra attack.

I'm not sure if I have heard this argument before but it might be one of the best ones out there. Good point, I agree with this.

27.7 - I don't agree with this one. The AB special rules should trump the rules in the BRB.

I don't think this really works. The AB especially state that only the stegadon has the armour save. It also has a split profile with the crew. It also states that the stegadon can be taken as a ridden monster for a character and therefore should only add +1 to the armour save.

27.12 - I don't see why Armor Piercing shouldn't stack with the effects of the Piranha Blade. If a Runesmith is in a unit with a character who has a runic weapon, that character would still get the effects of his weapon as well as armor piercing just from being in the same unit as the Runesmith. They stack, so why wouldn't AP stack with the Piranha Blade?

This is specifically said in the rulebook on page 66 that unless otherwise stated effects of the special rules won't stack. So if you have for example razor standard and pirahna blade which both give the character armour piercing, only one would apply. If from some source you would get just -1 to armour save modifier and not the AP rule, it would then stack. However I believe this FAQ chapter was directed against the pirahna blade+stegadon helm combo. Which I agree that they should not stack.

Only the part about toad markers is the one that I don't agree about the ruling that was made. It's just plain stupid as Scalenex said. Just roll off who puts the toad first like you do everything else.

For me atleast all other things seems clear that the ruling should be as they have written in the FAQ. Unfortunately the rules of this game are written quite badly so we have to roll with what we got. In my opinion I think that the rules are made so that if something is not written it's not allowed.

BR
Agrem

 

[SilverFaith]

27.11 Disciplines of the Old Ones (p61) Focus of Mystery will only give a Slann Mage-Priest spells from High Magic (he can not generate spells from another lore as well).

This is pretty poorly worded. Is it stating the obvious, IE you don't get loremaster in a lore + 4 spells in another one (Which I seem to recall has been FAQ'd long ago) or does this actually mean you cannot use the lore attribute?

Either way is pretty stupid, because the first interpretation has already been clarified, and the second would effectively delete the lore attribute.