8th Ed. First timer list (vs ogres)

[Fhanados]

Hi all,

I'm doing some preparation for my first ever fantasy game outside of a GW store! I've only played 2-3 times before in this edition and the new Lizardmen book has got me really excited. A friend of mine has an amazing Orgres army he's been working on while the rest of us slave away with 40k, but he's convinced me to get my arse in gear and use my beloved lizardmen.

Neither of us have played a proper game before and are probably diving in the deep end here. I'm hoping our experience with 40k will help us to wrap our heads around the rules, but I'm completely unfamiliar with what's dangerous, what to do with chaff and what equipment to give my characters so this will be interesting.

Saurus Oldblood (General)
Armour of Destiny, Crown of Command, Shield, Halberd, Carnosaur, Blood Roar, Loping Stride
I wanted a Carnosaur so this guy was the first thing on my list! Armour of Destiny seemed like too good a choice to pass on, and I've heard that the Crown of Command is a must-have so I whacked that on too (despite not really understanding why). Making the Carno faster and scarier seemed like fun so I added the upgrades to it as well.

Skink Priest
Level 2, Cube of Darkness

Skink Priest
Level 2, Dispel Scroll
I'm yet to decide on the lores for these two but I'm leaning towards Beasts for buffs. I know my opponent will be using Gut and Fire spells but that's about it. I have no idea what Gut magic does but it sounds like buffs, so I plan to hold on to the cube until all his RiP spells are active then suck them away.

Scar Veteran
Great Weapon, Gamblers Armour
He WAS going to be a BSB but I ran out of points. Now he just goes with the Saurus.

Saurus Warriors x30
Spears, Full Command

Skink Skirmishers x10
Blowpipes

Skink Skirmishers x10
Javelins

I originally had a cohort with krox in here but realised I didn't actually own that many skinks. Ah well. Hopefully I can figure out what to do with chaff skirmishers on the fly and maybe poison some ogres while I'm at it.

Stegadon
Sharpened Horns

Ancient Stegadon
Engine of the Gods, Sharpened Horns
I like dinosaurs, thus Stegadons. Engine is there to help out with skink casting and give the Saurus a ward save in combat since they can't parry with spears

Salamander pack x1
Killing Gnoblars? Not sure what good he'll be vs Ogres but I like him.

 

[teufelhund]

I have not had the oppurtunity to play ogres with lizrdmen as of yet. I would say that strengths would be the magic phase, and poisoned attacks. I I can't say how effective your priests will be with their limited spells. I would definitely take one for wyssans just for your saurus, because ogres can just flat out destroy in CC, but I might have leaned more toward slaan for a better and more versatile magic phase. It's a tough choice; I can see the merits of both. The only other thing I can think is spam skinks; I know you don't have any but you might consider another box. They are the only chaff we really have for cheap points and the poison ranged attacks could be your best friend auto wound on sixes. You can slow them down and get as many shots as possible. Bottom line is you have to whittle his units down before CC or you'll be in trouble. Good luck to you.

 

[Fhanados]

Just noticed I posted this in the wrong section. Sorry guys!

Should also mention it's a 2000pt list.

I see the advantage of having magical dominance over ogres. They have some pretty mean stuff, and I'm fairly certain I'll be facing mournfang cavalry and a stonehorn at least. I'm just hoping my multi-wounding stuff will cause enough damage to soften them up for when my less dangerous things move in.

On a side note my opponent thought Lizardmen would strike before his Ogres and was worried about losing models before striking. This made me laugh. Then I was sad. Stupid I1!

 

[teufelhund]

That's why you take great weapons when you can... Striking last doesn't matter. Also skinks would attack first... and poisoned attacks for a mere 2 pts a model means if you roll enough dice you're bound to get sixes and I bet a cohort would still be much less expensive than anything he has; which is why they are chaff anyhow. They do lack in WS though; you're looking at a 5+/6+ but if you roll enough dice it happens.

 

[Rocdocta]

if you are tooling up vs ogres I would offer the following:

drop the

sally. will be useless vs ogres as they don't have the ranked up units.
engine of the gods. over priced and almost useless.
scar vet as is. if you want to keep him, I would get a bsb in there somewhere on foot with the infantry. your general will outrun your combat blocks.

Sub in:
an ancient steg with horns. will make its points back by itself. one good charge and impact hits can remove whole ogre units. he will have an iron blaster so will kill a steg every turn or 2.

keep the priests in the rear away from your units as he will have a hell heart and force you to roll on the miscast table.

take lore of beasts and just try and wildform the saurus.

always use javs and never pipes. javs hit on 5s at long range and pipes hit on...move -1 long range -1 double shot -1 so no poison. javs also give you a 5+/6++ parry. useful but not bankable.

a good list especially if he leaves the cannons at home but he may not do that...

 

[Necromancy Black]

First of all, I would try and get the a BSB in there. Rerolls on cold blooded is amazing and you NEED to make sure you saurus don't break from combat.

Secondly, the Salamander does one good thing against Ogres and that's cause panic tests. If you take heavens with your skinks the sig spell on both of them can do wonders (plus the -1 to hit from it can really turn the tide of a fight for you). Hit a unit with the sig spell twice, then try and shoot it with the salamander, wound on a 4+ and what then take a panic test at 7-5. It's not guaranteed but it's enough of a threat that they'll have to deal with it.

If you wanna take beasts instead, drop the sallie, that should be points to get your BSB.

The skink skirmishers are good, and not just for shooting. In fact that's there last job, before that they should be getting in the way of charging, fleeing away and then hopefully rallying to do it all over again or maybe start picking things off. Also, sig spell of beasts onto jav skinks gives then Str4 range attacks (nice!), cast it on them twice get Str 5(great!).

 

[Fhanados]

Thanks for the tips!

I got hold of his list (he volunteered it!) and it doesn't look like he's using hellheart or whatever it's called. No gnoblar either, so I'm thinking of dropping the sallie and making the Scar Vet BSB.

The reason for the EotG is pretty simple: I like the concept and model. It might not be as good as it used to be but I still think it has its uses.

The reason for blowpipes is simpler: The models are made and painted! I'd prefer javelins but with the general consensus that they were at least on par with BPs edging out slightly on top last edition I made a unit of each. Now I just want Javelins

Priests will definitely be beasts. Upon reading the lores again I'm pretty confident Beasts will be more useful to me.

 

[Caprasauridae]

His Mournfang Cavalry can really cause you troubles, so I would make sure, via skinky redirection goodness, that your Carnosaur and/or Stegadons get the charge on them. You can either position your skinks in their way so, that if they charge, they'll end up further away from the main force and preferably in front of your dinos, or so that their charge/overrun takes them ahead of the main force and into your charge range. How difficult this is will depend on the skill level of your opponent and also a bit on the amount of terrain.

It would be good if you had more skinks, at least one unit. Or Chameleon Skinks to try and take out the Ironblaster. If you get the change, always try to charge the Ironblaster to it's flank or rear. It's classified as a chariot, so the beastie pulling it can't attack if not facing you, which can help you a bit (I think it has a S5).

Beware of Scouting Maneaters. You should try to deploy so that they can't get to your flanks easily. Also, if your priests are on their own, they might get peppered by Ogre pistols, so take care to keep them a safe distance away. Maneaters can also have poisoned attacks so be careful with your dinos. Other than that, what comes to mind is always try to get a combo-charge, as he shouldn't have that many combat blocks. On the other hand, you don't either...

A note on the Cube of Darkness. I think Ogre magic doesn't have many/any Remains in Play spells, so the Cube is a bit more limited in it's use. Though, you are right on that the lore is mainly buffs, so shutting down the magic phase before they can get +1S/T or Regeneration on can be a real life saver.

Also, I have been playing Fantasy for couple years now and recently started dappling in 40k. In my opinion, it helps to learn the core rules of the system (i.e. dice decide everything, you roll your WS against enemy's, the turn is divided into phases and so forth), so knowing the other system makes learning the other quicker as you can skip some of the very basics, but also adds a lot of confusion and playing the 40k with some rule from Fantasy or vice versa. To me, in my first game of 40k, it was a shock how quickly the enemy was in Close Combat and it felt like I couldn't control the game at all. It was very frustrating. Already on my second game this felt much easier, though. In Fantasy, the troops are much more rigid, so you need to really think, which way your block is facing.

Well, that was about all I wanted to say. Sorry for the long rant. Good luck with your games!

 

[Fhanados]

I love long rants! It gives me valuable information to process .

It's gonna be a long while before this game happens, he got called away for work for 6 weeks. Thought I'd post his somewhat rough draft of the army he'll he using. We only play with models we own, so this is not likely to change anytime soon.

Slaughter Master: lvl 4, Greedy Fist, Great Weapon
Fire Belly: Greedy Fist, Great Weapon
Iron Guts: Full command (I think 5 of these?)
Ogres: Full Command (6 maybe?)
Lead Belchers: x4, champion
Mournfang Cavalry: x3, Full Command, Heavy Armour
Stonehorn
Thundertusk

 

[Caprasauridae]

I guess there's a typo, but he can't have two Greedy Fists.

 

[godswearhats]

I love long rants! It gives me valuable information to process .
Slaughter Master: lvl 4, Greedy Fist, Great Weapon
Fire Belly: Greedy Fist, Great Weapon
Iron Guts: Full command (I think 5 of these?)
Ogres: Full Command (6 maybe?)
Lead Belchers: x4, champion
Mournfang Cavalry: x3, Full Command, Heavy Armour
Stonehorn
Thundertusk

It's probably 6 Iron guts (for two ranks) and that would bring him up to the bare minimum in core (along with 6 Ogre bulls). Here's some general tips for battling vs Ogres.

1) Most units are WS3, S4, T4, so any kind of elite unit (e.g. Temple Guard) will hit on 3s and even Saurus will hit and wound on 4s. You'll be facing 18 attacks from the two units, but you'll be able to get 18 back from 6-wide Saurus. Your predatory fighter more or less matches his Stomps (you'll get 3 on average from 18, he gets 3). He could potentially get impact hits which can help him, and the multi-wound models make it harder for you to reduce his number of attacks, which leads me to ...

2) Anything that does Multiple Wounds is going to really come into its own vs Ogres. Piranha blade, Sharpened Horn steg and Carnosaur are both going to help (although I would give the Piranha Blade to something on foot - don't put all your eggs in one basket)

3) Use your skinks to control where his units go. Don't worry about whether they'll do any damage or not - any they do is a bonus. Setting up the battlefield so *you* get to make the charges you want and avoid taking charges you don't want (like from his Mournfang) is definitely the best use of Skinks.

4) Thundertusks can be hard to deal with, although again your Carnosaur will likely make short work of it. Be warned you get -1 to hit in Close Combat because of its special rule.

5) Ogres don't have great Ld. It's 7 standard, so don't forget to make your opponent roll all his Fear tests (unfortunately you won't get any Terror tests or Thunderstomps against him).

6) He doesn't have much to deal with Armor. I suspect Cold One Knights might make for a good surprise unit in this match up.

Hope this helps,
~gwh

 

[Pinktaco]

They don't have any great weapons or S5 + Halbards or something like that?

 

[n810]

I believe one of their core units can upgrade to great weapons.

 

[RipperDerek]

Ironguts come with great weapons, and they are a pretty bad matchup for our cavalry.

Skinks are your best weapons against ogres. Except for mournfang, they're not heavily armored, so poison really shines here. Also, because they tend to focus a lot of points in a small number of units, they are very susceptible to being redirected.

 

[Rocdocta]

Skinks are your best weapons against ogres. Except for mournfang, they're not heavily armored, so poison really shines here. Also, because they tend to focus a lot of points in a small number of units, they are very susceptible to being redirected.

As an ogre/liz player I fully agree here. except that with redirectors the following may hold true:

- the dual firebelly lists will melt a few redirector units with fire balls and
- its common for 3 individual sabre tusks to be used to nail redirectors and clear the way.
- they have firepower in the form of leadbelchers (D6 S4 shots each 24 in range), ironblaster with S10 grapeshot, pistol handguns on maneaters with BS4 and poison.

 

[Eire]

Long Ogre player here, so lemme jump in:

I'll make comments based on the list suggestions -
Slaughter Master: lvl 4, Greedy Fist, Great Weapon
Fire Belly: Greedy Fist, Great Weapon
Iron Guts: Full command (I think 5 of these?)
Ogres: Full Command (6 maybe?)
Lead Belchers: x4, champion
Mournfang Cavalry: x3, Full Command, Heavy Armour
Stonehorn
Thundertusk

1) A common SM build these days is Fencers Blades with Glittering Scales, no great weapon, no Greedy Fist, and he has to do Lore of the Great Maw because of the Firebelly taking Lore of Fire (mandatory). So, you have base spell Stubborn and some other odd buffs. He won't keep his panic check spell, because against Lizardmen its kinda useless, and he probably won't take his 6 spell the Maw because it has a tendency to go haywire. Expect - Trollguts 4+ regen, and some other +1T or +1S spells.

2) Firebelly will more than likely have the Ruby Ring of Ruin so he can stack the Lore attribute Kindleflame/fire whatever its called. He will probably just take the base Fireball spell and whatever else he can grab. That and he'll likely run a great weapon or extra hand weapon here with a dispell scroll. He MAY make the Firebelly his Hellheart caddy (on your magic phase he drops it, d6X5" all casters roll on the miscast table, its nasty) so watch out for that.

3) I wouldn't take both a unit of Ironguts and Bulls, I would take one or the other. I would take Ironguts x8 and put the SM/FB in here and just march across the board. I would take the +1 LD banner as well.

4) Leadbelchers will almost NEVER have a champion, just a musician for quick/swift reform and be able to fire. Dropping the bull unit out of core and buffing up the number of Ironguts he should be able to take 5-6 Leadies here. They are very dangerous. Move and fire, slow to fire, Str4 AP1, d6 shots per Leady. They will chew your units up like no ones business on a good roll.

5) I never run MFC. I know thats probably a cardinal sin for Ogre players but I just like having more Ironguts or Leadbelchers personally. I use my Rare slots for more impact related stuff, or if I am feeling cheesy I use my Special points for Maneaters with Scout Sniper and shoot at your low level casters/BSB.

6) Rare choices will likely have an Ironblaster (the great cannon) and either the Thundertusk or Stonehorn but probably not both. I don't know many Ogre players that do not take at least one Ironblaster these days for all comers because having a cannon is a must for anti-Skaven Warp Lightning Cannon/Doomwheel lists.

7) There will be a BSB in this list somewhere, maybe with the points cut out for the Bull unit. Any Ogre player not running a BSB Bruiser these days should lose and lose bad. You have to have one in nearly every list (except weird fun lists) if you want to have a shot against folks these days. Just my personal opinion of course, but food for thought.

So having said all that. You break that Irongut unit with the SM/FB and you are guaranteed at least a minor victory. Use your Skinks to redirect, use your Saurus to hold if you need to pin them down and flank them, but most importantly try not to just run right into them without peppering at least a few shots here or there to add wounds to the unit.

 

[Kharn The Betrayer]

I actually find one baby steg can take mournfang easily if you get the charge or its about even if he charged you

 

[Eire]

I actually find one baby steg can take mournfang easily if you get the charge or its about even if he charged you

Yes, and the baby steg causes a Fear check (your Terror versus their Fear) against the MFC which should be at a 7/8 if I remember. Every roll helps the Lizardmen player in that case. The MFC won't get their stomps, but each model has 7 attacks (3 for the rider 4 for the mournfang) so keep that in mind. Granted the OK player is probably only hitting half of those, lets say 10 for 3 models, and wounding on 5-6s, so 3-4 wounds max? Of those you are getting saves on 5-6s so probably save 1-2 if lucky. The matchup isn't bad by any means for the Lizardmen player.

Keep in mind, the MFC is more than likely getting the charge on anything on your side of the board without redirectors, so use those skink clouds well... I take that back, maybe a cowboy will get a charge on them, but not sure if you want that matchup either.

All in all, Lizardmen do several things better than Ogres; Magic, Ld checks, redirect with valid units, and we can debate monsters but I think Lizardmen have better choices (no, not the Trog, but everything else is great).

 

[Kharn The Betrayer]

One thing to note is he will beat you in close combat if you fight his iron guts in a fair fight. Gang up on them or whittle them with shooting. Sotek help you if you don't get magic off during a combat phase with them.