8th Ed. First-time MSU list 2500 points

[Ilhicamina]

Hello to all masters of the Old Ones' creations! I'm thinking of starting a new warhammer army but I want to try out a MSU-style list. The obvious candidates were Elves of all flavours, but I figured Lizardmen might be good at it too, with their quite high-quality attacks and masses of skinks.

What I'm trying to achieve with MSU is a list with Multiple Small Units, that can outmanoeuvre most enemies. The point is to take on manageable units with multiple charges, netting me more attacks and damage output, but sacrificing survivability. To this end, units should provide a distinct role in the army: redirecting. tarpitting, monster/warmachine hunting, providing strong attacks to win combat, ... and units should strive to be replaceable, meaning I need redundancy and all units should be cheap, so that the loss of one unit, doesn't mean the enemy has won much at all. This means trying to keep units under 200 points, unless they are serving a specific purpose.

Would this kind of list be any good at all? (Bear in mind it's my first LM list ever )

Slann Mage-Priest (General)
--Lore of Death
--Higher State of Conciousness
--Bane Head
--Plaque of Tepok
--Battle Standard Bearer
--Standard of Discipline
This Slann obviously costs more than 200 points, nearing 350 even, but he provides many roles: he's the General, BSB, and only source of magic. In MSU I think it is best to go for anti-magic protection, but taking the Becalming Cogitation and a Dispel Scroll, or Cube of Darkness, costs a lot of points. I figured it might be good to keep him cheaper and take out enemy mages with the Lore of Death as my magical defense. The Bane Head, Ld 10 and 5 spells from the Lore of Death should really help me in this cause, and after that purpose is served, I can also still use D&D or (bubbled) Soulblight to really help my army. Note that he will be a lone Character, but I think being Ethereal and a "free" 4+ WSv should protect him enough.

Saurus Scar-Veteran
--Cold One
--Light Armour
--Great Weapon
--Dragonhelm
--Amulet of Itzl
This lone "cowboy" as you call them has a 1+ ASv, protection against fire and a one-time protection against cannons or KB. He is meant to be a monster-hunter with his S7, and his fire protection might help in that, since many monsters have Flaming breath weapons.

Saurus Scar-Veteran
--Cold One
--Light Armour
--Halberd
--Charmed Shield
--Potion of Speed
--Dawnstone
The second lone "cowboy" also has a 1+ ASv, this time re-rollable. In addition, he has S6 and one-time cannon protection. The Potion of Speed is for if I know I'm going into combat and want to challenge a lesser hero with less than 6 initiative. This guy's main role is just to tarpit blocks of troops that can't really dent his ASv. This means my ~150 point investment will probably hold off many times his points and will survive thanks to his ASv. Hopefully he won't break, since he should be able to overcome the enemy's static CR through his own damage output.

Saurus Warriors x15
--Musician
--Standard Bearer

Saurus Warriors x15
--Musician
--Standard Bearer

Saurus Warriors x15
--Musician
--Standard Bearer
These Saurus blocks are small, but provide high-quality and numerous Attacks, while being quite naturally resilient. They are the mainstay of the MSU army and the main combat elements. The musicians provide the ability to swift reform, helping my movement, and help to rally too of course (I'm not used to this, I only play undead). The Standard Bearers are here for the +1 CR and the B&G scenario.

Skink Skirmishers x10

Skink Skirmishers x10

Skink Skirmishers x10
Who doesn't love these, right? They do their usual role of harassing/redirecting/poisoning. It also gives me three early drops to deploy, so I can try to out-deploy my opponent.

Skinks x20
--Musician
--Kroxigor x2

Skinks x20
--Musician
--Kroxigor x2
These are cheap, small units of Skrox that can provide high Strength attacks in a fast-moving package, and will mainly support the Saurus blocks.

Chameleon Skinks x10

Chameleon Skinks x10
The Chamo Skinks just do what they do best, kill warmachines/lone characters/monsters, and generally annoy the opponent.

Cold One Cavalry x6
--Musician
--Standard Bearer
--Banner of Eternal Flame
Man! These guys cost a lot! I originally inserted them because they come in the battalion, but they are perfect for a MSU army because they provide a lot of high Strength attacks on a mobile platform, and bring Flaming attacks where they are necessary (but really? Command models for these guys are insanely expensive!)

Salamander Hunting Pack x1
--Additional Skink Handler

Salamander Hunting Pack x1
--Additional Skink Handler
Mobile artillery, as always. I'd try to deploy these guys so that they can't easily be charged and can keep dancing around enemy infantry blocks, severely weakening them before they reach my lines.


All comments and feedback are appreciated! Is this idea worthless or does it hold some value?

 

[Rettile]

units of 15 saurus warriors don't work very well, the rule is go big
you could do an unit of 20 and the other of 25

 

[david l]

From my perspective, the biggest problem is the Saurus blocks. Firstly they are slow, literally the slowest thing on the table outside a Dwarf, which is very bad for a maneuver list. But mainly I don't think they attack all that well - 15 attacks with strength 4 and Ws 3 is not great damage. Even fighting fragile elves, and ignoring how many Saurus they kill first, you are doing just 4.2 kills. Yes that is more than the SKrox blocks, but the SKrox are faster, hurt heavy armour, fight monters and monsterous units better, and have more ranks and wounds. Since none of the units can really take a hit or survive extended combat, why not just take more SKrox? I think a big block of Saurus makes a better grind unit that SKrox because they die slower, but I don't see the value in little Saurus.

I would take more units of cavalry or drop them entirely. Generally just drop them in favor of various things - Saurus, SKrox, Stegadons. For flaming attacks, a scar-vet with Burning Blade is a better choice.

I wouldn't take a Slann without Rumination. An extra 2-4 dice a round is HUGE.

 

[Ilhicamina]

From my perspective, the biggest problem is the Saurus blocks. Firstly they are slow, literally the slowest thing on the table outside a Dwarf, which is very bad for a maneuver list.

I wouldn't take a Slann without Rumination. An extra 2-4 dice a round is HUGE.

For the first point, clearly you have never played Tomb Kings M4 with marching is double their movement, haha. But I understand that their slowness is a problem, would it be possible to funnel the enemy into them through use of the skinks and whatnot? I could also indeed bring their number up to 20 or so, which would make them more solid combat blocks, because I do want to keep them: 2A base at S4, with T4 and a 4+ ASv, 6+ Parry is really good, probably one of the best core choices around. This might lead me to dropping the knights and upping the Saurus' numbers, possibly adding another unit of Saurus with the spare points. I could also transfer the banner of Eternal Flame onto one of the Saurus units.

For the second point, I understand that Rumination really rocks and is "too good to pass up", but remember that it adds 50 points to his cost (as I can't pass up Ethereal either), and in a MSU list that's a lot for one character. Also, I have no other casters or ways to spend my PD, so I think I'll have enough dice to use in my phase.