8th Ed. First Post - Tactics vs. Tomb Kings

[Orion.Pax]

Hi folks, new WHFB player, have played 40K and others but I got some Lizardmen for Christmas and I've started a fledgling army. I could get together as much as 2000pts but there's not much variation in the list. I Currently, I've got the basic battalion box, Tictaq'to, an Ancient Stegadon and Grymloq, but can't even field my carnosaur, as Grymloq or not, due to the % points cost until I get more.

I'm wondering what you might suggest against a ridiculously mobile TK army? Two of my buddies play TK, but my one friend has a nearly-all-chariot/cavalry based army supported by a Necrosphinx and half a dozen scarab swarms. As it is right now, I'm looking at taking a ton of impact hits, no room to maneuver, and will likely end up having to grind him down slowly. For the time being, I'm going to try to tie up his wall o' chariots with Scarus Warriors, hit him in the flanks with Cold Ones and a Scar-Vet Cowboy, and harass him with giant stegadon-blowpipes and skink skirmishers. Basically I've gotta roll with what I've got at this point.

PS, I couldn't find anything to say so, but Poisoned attacks are viable vs. Undead, right? Fluff-wise it doesn't make a lot of sense that my blowpipes can poison a reanimated skeleton, but I don't think there's anything in the rules.

Any suggestions?

Gracias

 

[Arli]

Welcome to the forum! Glad you made it.

To answer you questions, here you go:

Poison does work against tomb kings. The only time it would not is if there is a rule that a character has that makes them immune to poison (like an Ogre Butchter).

The best tactics that I find are best against Tomb Kings is to make sure that you take a slann. Use lore of light to destroy his army. Another thing that I try to do is deny those impact hits. I know this is hard to do, but do not let him charge you first!

Since you do not have a slann currently, you could also use your stegadon as an Engine of the Gods. Burning Alignment does Str 5 hits against undead armies.

Another thing to do is to target the army Heirophant. Kill that guy and the entire army just falls apart. I have played many a TK player whose entire army dissolved after I killed this model. Many TK players will concede the loss when their Heirophant is killed.

Hope this helps.

 

[GCPD]

What points value are you playing?

I would suggest grabbing some more skinks and 3 Kroxigor in a combined unit. The Skinks absorb the impact hit damage, whilst the Kroxigor smash up the chariots.

 

[Arli]

Another thing that I thought of was that in order to beat the TK players, you must survive the first round of combat if he gets the charge off. After the first round, the chariot's strength drops back down and they become more manageable.

To do this, horde units work well. Be them saurus hordes or skrox hordes.

 

[Orion.Pax]

Thanks all,

We're playing 1200 points initially but I doubt it'll stay there for long.

I'm hoping to basically survive the initial rush, and run my scar-vet cowboy around and go after his heirophant. That's going to be difficult with the sheer volume of models he puts on the table. Something like 10 chariots, couple dozen cavalry, and so on. The cavalry are his core units - he's literally got nothing on foot. I think even his heirophant will be on a chariot mount.

Regardless, at this point I suspect it'll be more of a learning-the-game curve, not a learning-how-to-win-through-tactical-knowhow. Should be a lotta fun.

Cheers

 

[Orion.Pax]

So we had a very successful day of gaming, made lots of mistakes and learned lots too. While I played against Friend 2 who had Tomb Kings, Friend 1 with Tomb Kings played against Friend 3 with High Elves. We ended up playing 1500 points instead of 1200, which was better, i think.

My game with TK2 went well. We played the mission where you have to seize enemy banners. VP went to the Ancient Stegadon. My CoC charged into a pair of Scarab swarms, destroyed them outright, and overran, putting them squarely in the sights of a trio of Ushabti (I would be flanked and quickly rolled up) so I fled when they charged. My fleeing put me 1" from the table edge but their pursuit put them square to be flanked by my Steg. Steg charged, did impact hits, gored him with tusks, 1 skink did a wound from on board, then I suffered 3 dead skinks on board, and Thunderstop finished them off. That rolled up his left flank, and all was right with the world.

We had an ugly tarpit in the middle of the board too, where my Saurus charged his unit of skeletons, accompanied by a lich priest and his Tomb Prince, and I hit him in the flank with my Old Blood Cowboy. The 'My Will Be Done' special rule was a rude surprise, but my cowboy took out both the priest and the prince via challenges, which reduced their WS to a much more manageable level. The flank and re-flanking was getting silly though. I charged with SW's and flanked with cowboy. Then the SW's were flanked by Tomb Guard, then when the skeletons were toast, cowboy was flanked by a chariot. It got messy real quick.

The thing I really got to appreciate was how hard my units really are. It's almost ridiculous. Both vs. the TK's and the High Elves (I got a second game in after dinner with Friend 3), I was soaking SO MANY WOUNDS I started to feel almost guilty. Like when my 5 Cold One Cavalry, on their own, whittled his Dragon Princes from 10 down to 4 before the surviving 2 finally lost a combat, fled, and were charged on his turn, taking them out. Ridonkulous. Awesome, but ridonkulous.

Cheers all, rumour has it I need a Frog Priest of Doom.

 

[Rhodium]

Hey

Glad you at some success, TK should be pretty easy for lizards to beat,myou just need experience and you will be fine


One wee heads up though

You said your CoC overan then fled from an ushabti charge.. CoC are stupid, therefore immune to psychology and thus are not allowed to flee as a charge reaction , just for next time they would have have to take that charge!

 

[Orion.Pax]

Ohhh... Well, like I said, there were lots of mistakes made. I'll know better for next time. I thought Immune to Psychology was only for fleeing once combat is actually joined, or ignoring Fear and Terror.

Oh well. When Friends 1 & 3 were playing their game, they were rolling Flee distance AFTER charge distance, meaning Friend 1's necrosphinx was chasing Friend 3's Archers all over the board until they ran off the table edge, because he could never catch them. We sorted that out shortly afterwards...

 

[Caprasauridae]

Hello there!

My other army is Tomb Kings, so maybe I can give you some insights.

First of all, you shouldn't have too much trouble with Tomb Kings. Lizardmen are a good match up. Poison shots destroy Sphinxes of all variety (just beware those Skeleton Archers and their "always hit on 5s" arrows, they are nasty when pointed towards Skinks.). Tomb Guard can be nasty due to their Killing Blow and S4 (S5 with Halberds), but are slow and should be rather easily outmaneuvered. Chariots are aptly called "glass cannons", as they are only good if they get the charge. Even a Skirmishing Skink unit can keep them in place rather well, if they charge the chariots, preferably to the flank. This is good practice for you, outmaneuvering is an important thing to learn and Tomb Kings are one of the easiest opponents to outmaneuver.

Killing the Hierophant is good and can lead to a world of hurt to the TK player, but is in no way an auto-lose for them like it is for the Vampire Counts. Most of the stuff has a Leadership of 8 anyway. I have several times sacrificed the Hierophant and still won the game. Still, your opponent looses an important, and expensive, character and might not be able to resurrect any more troops. Beware of Hierotitans, though. It's a giant golem like thing (it has no model from GW, though), which significantly helps to boost their wizards' spells. Also, it is no lack cluster in combat, either. But, it only has a 5+ armor, so your Skinks' poison can work wonders again.

Hmm, that's about all I had in mind at the moment. If you have anymore questions, just fire away. Oh, but, one more mistake. If I read correctly, you Thunderstomped the Ushabti. This cannot be done, since they are Monstrous Cavalry and thus as immune to Stomps and Thunderstomps as our Kroxygors.

Good luck with your future games!