8th Ed. Etheral Slann viable with the new book?

[Pinktaco]

I have no idea what the price is for this particular discipline, so I dunno if it's expensive. I was wondering though, would it be possible to make the slann etheral and save points on the templeguards?

I won't be playing my first game (ever) before september so my experience with this is rather low. My first game will be a 2000 pts game and with the slann + TG you throw quite a lot of points away just to field a general.

 

[Rikard]

based on the last book, I would say it probably costs round about 40-50 points now.

It also depends on the enemy you're playing against, an army like Dwarves it might not be a good idea as you can bet their canons are probably going to have runes on them.

Any other shooty army (baring demons) it is a nice way of protecting them.

 

[Pinktaco]

based on the last book, I would say it probably costs round about 40-50 points now.

It also depends on the enemy you're playing against, an army like Dwarves it might not be a good idea as you can bet their canons are probably going to have runes on them.

Any other shooty army (baring demons) it is a nice way of protecting them.

I'll mainly be playing vs my friends who plays empire and britonnia.. So what you're saying it that it should be alright.. unless I play vs dwarfes?

 

[Rettile]

ethereal now makes the slann unstable too, so you have to keep him away from close combat. Bretonnia and the empire tend to use mono-cavalry lists, so you have to be very careful because of the quick units who can engage your M4 slann. If you can protect him ethereal will help against empire's cannons, but now in the TG the slann auto passes the LoS rolls, so the ethereal discipline is quite useless against cannons

 

[Pinktaco]

how low can I go with the unit count on a templeguard unit in a 2000 pts army? 16 + slann? It's just because I would rather spend those points on something else, although If I have to pay say 50pts just to be etheral it's do minimize the amount of points I save, I suppose

 

[Slanputin]

Unless you're playing against someone who has a high frequency of magical attacks (eg. Daemons) or has a high possibility using shooting/artillery that's counted as magical attacks (eg. Daemons, Dwarf cannons with runes, HE Maiden Guard etc.) then it would be viable.

I imagine it'd be fine against Bretonnia; Empire I'm not too sure as I've never read their rulebook, however from my general knowledge I think it should be viable against them too.

The lowest TG I've used is 12. It's not recommended as they can deplete very quickly, but as long as you handle them well they're still workable. I'd say 16 is fine, obviously the more the merrier but don't be afraid to cut down a couple for points elsewhere.

 

[Pinktaco]

So uhm yeah I'm away from my BRB and I'm not sure exactly how unstable works.

 

[Darius the Insane]

Empire I'm not too sure as I've never read their rulebook, however from my general knowledge I think it should be viable against them too.

Would be fine as long as they don't cast Flaming sword of Rhuin or anything else that can give their cannon magical attacks. It's happened to me before...not fun

After that I ran my ethereal lord with MR2 to bump up his ward save. Other than that everything Slanputin said is bang on.

 

[Caneghem]

So uhm yeah I'm away from my BRB and I'm not sure exactly how unstable works.

In close combat, instead of taking a break test, Unstable characters/units lose one wound for every point by which they lose combat.

So say for example a ranked up unit manages to charge the Slann, you might think you are safe because the enemy doesn't have magic weapons. So while they can't wound the Slann, the Slann most likely won't be able to wound back with his 1 measly attack.

So looking at what the likely combat result would be...

Slann
BSB +1
War Banner +1 (Note: this is a BRB item that you would likely find useful as an ethereal Slann)
Total = 2

Ranked enemy unit
Ranks +3
Banner +1
Unit charging bonus +1
Total = 5

So the combat result is, the Slann loses by 3, and would therefore lose 3 wounds. On subsequent turns, you'd lose by 2, so in the second round they'd finish off the Slann.

On the flip side, the Slann could get away with charging a unit that only has a banner and no ranks, like a unit of monstrous cav, or even a big monster which doesn't even have a banner option. The only problem you would stumble into as a newer player, is that sometimes you'll run into monsters that have magical attacks (like the skaven Hellpit Abomination) or monstrous cav riders with magical attacks (ensorcelled weapons on skullcrushers, etc.) If you are playing friendly games early on, you could just ask your opponent what equipment each unit has, and whether any of it is magical. Odds are fairly good that the ethereal Slann would be safer in combat with a unit that can't hit him, rather than dodging ranged magical attacks all day.

I'd also advise spending the points for a flying carpet if you are doing the solo-slann, to really boost his mobility. He should still be able to get a 4+ Look out sir! if he is near a unit of infantry (have to see new book). You'll probably want to give him magic resistance 5+ so that his ward save against magic missiles and direct damage goes to a 2+.

So he'll be a bit pricier than a normal Slann, but he'd be great with Death magic or even the signature spells.

Suggested Item combo:
BSB with war banner- For a +2 combat resolution at all times. Just be mindful of where you move him, as he is both general and BSB bubbles.
Arabyan Carpet- "I can show you the woooooorld...." Turn that sad movement 4 into flying movement 10! Charge over the tops of enemy units into their monster units and beat them down with static resolution! Swoop over water glittering in the starlet with princess Jasmin! (Spawning of Bob?)
Obsidian amulet- MR 2
Channelling Staff- to combine with the discipline that allows 3 channel dice to be rolled.

 

[Lizardmatt]

IF you can get the flying carpet on the slaan, that's a really good idea.
We'll have plenty of infantry around to get the 4+ look out.
My only worry is that the last book got FAQ'd that you can't take the carpet because you aren't on foot.

-Matt

 

[Caneghem]

IF you can get the flying carpet on the slaan, that's a really good idea.
We'll have plenty of infantry around to get the 4+ look out.
My only worry is that the last book got FAQ'd that you can't take the carpet because you aren't on foot.

-Matt

Oh right, somehow I thought it was only the Transformation of Kadon the Slann couldn't do. Would be great if it turns out the Slann can fly this time around, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Pinktaco]

So uhm yeah I'm away from my BRB and I'm not sure exactly how unstable works.

In close combat, instead of taking a break test, Unstable characters/units lose one wound for every point by which they lose combat.

So say for example a ranked up unit manages to charge the Slann, you might think you are safe because the enemy doesn't have magic weapons. So while they can't wound the Slann, the Slann most likely won't be able to wound back with his 1 measly attack.

So looking at what the likely combat result would be...

Slann
BSB +1
War Banner +1 (Note: this is a BRB item that you would likely find useful as an ethereal Slann)
Total = 2

Ranked enemy unit
Ranks +3
Banner +1
Unit charging bonus +1
Total = 5

So the combat result is, the Slann loses by 3, and would therefore lose 3 wounds. On subsequent turns, you'd lose by 2, so in the second round they'd finish off the Slann.

On the flip side, the Slann could get away with charging a unit that only has a banner and no ranks, like a unit of monstrous cav, or even a big monster which doesn't even have a banner option. The only problem you would stumble into as a newer player, is that sometimes you'll run into monsters that have magical attacks (like the skaven Hellpit Abomination) or monstrous cav riders with magical attacks (ensorcelled weapons on skullcrushers, etc.) If you are playing friendly games early on, you could just ask your opponent what equipment each unit has, and whether any of it is magical. Odds are fairly good that the ethereal Slann would be safer in combat with a unit that can't hit him, rather than dodging ranged magical attacks all day.

I'd also advise spending the points for a flying carpet if you are doing the solo-slann, to really boost his mobility. He should still be able to get a 4+ Look out sir! if he is near a unit of infantry (have to see new book). You'll probably want to give him magic resistance 5+ so that his ward save against magic missiles and direct damage goes to a 2+.

So he'll be a bit pricier than a normal Slann, but he'd be great with Death magic or even the signature spells.

Suggested Item combo:
BSB with war banner- For a +2 combat resolution at all times. Just be mindful of where you move him, as he is both general and BSB bubbles.
Arabyan Carpet- "I can show you the woooooorld...." Turn that sad movement 4 into flying movement 10! Charge over the tops of enemy units into their monster units and beat them down with static resolution! Swoop over water glittering in the starlet with princess Jasmin! (Spawning of Bob?)
Obsidian amulet- MR 2
Channelling Staff- to combine with the discipline that allows 3 channel dice to be rolled.

O: thanks a lot for your very informative and descriptive reply. You pretty much answered most of my questions and added suggestions on top of it. Couldn't have asked for more

I'll have to try out different variations on figure out what matches my preference. The carpet sounds awesome, but uhm yeah we'll have to see if it's still there.

Concerning magic items and my friends I'm sure it won't be an issue. They are as new to it as me or close to.. They've only had a few games.

I just got one more question though - concerning attacking, how does it work when the slann flanks a unit (if he ever gets the chance) and rank bonus?

 

[Caneghem]

The Slann wouldn't be able to deny their rank bonus, to do that you need 2 full ranks on the unit that charges the flank. But you would still get +1 bonus because you flanked them and +1 because you charged them. Still a bad idea though!

 

[sirkently]

The Slann is still not on foot. So he still can't take the carpet.

 

[Pinktaco]

The Slann wouldn't be able to deny their rank bonus, to do that you need 2 full ranks on the unit that charges the flank. But you would still get +1 bonus because you flanked them and +1 because you charged them. Still a bad idea though!

Yeah figured. So it can be good/decent to stall say 3 x Demigryphons?

 

[Rhodium]

It's still feasible just not as amazing as it used to be,

If you intend to hold up units, then the war banner is a must

Also I think the discipline that allows you to get wounds back on a six is also useful.

Furthermore, high magic spell Apotheosis is useful, as the ability to swap spells for life spells and use lifebloom is also useful, so with BSB and war banner should survive one round against a mundane unit
(Charge, up to 3 ranks and standard against BSB + war banner) and you should be able to gain wounds back in your magic phase, but it is far more riskier now and not something I would probably run

 

[Shadoer]

Well it's not as good as it used to be, but I think it's almost essential now for competative play.

I mean, think about it. We have no way to dump miscasts except for hoping we can grab Throne of Vines from the Lore of Life. That makes our Temple Guard very likely to die en-masse during a game.

If we really want to dish out some magical punishment, we are going to have to look at using the Slann Solo.

 

[Rhodium]

Well it's not as good as it used to be, but I think it's almost essential now for competative play.

I mean, think about it. We have no way to dump miscasts except for hoping we can grab Throne of Vines from the Lore of Life. That makes our Temple Guard very likely to die en-masse during a game.

If we really want to dish out some magical punishment, we are going to have to look at using the Slann Solo.

What like every other army? Granted no other mages sit in the 2nd rank but
You don't need to stick your slann right in the middle of the TG block, put him to the side or in a saurus block and also with soul of stone, you have an even greater chance of getting 8-9 to save your TG from destruction, with 5W and a 4+ ward a slann can eat quite a few magical feedbacks.

Guess the easier thing is not to throw six dice at uber spells, sure other miscasts occur but miscast protection isn't the be all and end all.

 

[Natural 20]

Isn't the Jaguar standard in our book? It gives us swift stride now i think Just pop the Jaguar banner on an ethereal Slann so you can flee with 3 dice and zip around like a frog on a jazzy scooter!

 

[Shadoer]

Well it's not as good as it used to be, but I think it's almost essential now for competative play.

I mean, think about it. We have no way to dump miscasts except for hoping we can grab Throne of Vines from the Lore of Life. That makes our Temple Guard very likely to die en-masse during a game.

If we really want to dish out some magical punishment, we are going to have to look at using the Slann Solo.

What like every other army? Granted no other mages sit in the 2nd rank but
You don't need to stick your slann right in the middle of the TG block, put him to the side or in a saurus block and also with soul of stone, you have an even greater chance of getting 8-9 to save your TG from destruction, with 5W and a 4+ ward a slann can eat quite a few magical feedbacks.

Guess the easier thing is not to throw six dice at uber spells, sure other miscasts occur but miscast protection isn't the be all and end all.

Ok you don't need to put it in the center of your Temple Guard. Still though, the temple guard are arguably our best infantry and they stand a pretty good chance of getting wiped out by a miscast.

Soul of Stone does give you a small chance of getting the 8-9 you want to save the Temple Guard... but it's a small chance. Considering every other option kills large number of guard or loses you magic levels, it's not a good option... especially since it's competing against a lot of other very good disciplines.

Finally those uber spells are kind of important to get off. Fiery Convocation is 19+ to cast and seems to be one of our most viable ways of wiping out a hundred man Skaven Slave Unit of extra cheese without being stuck in combat for two rounds while getting hit with artillery.