7th Ed. EotG disappointment...

[RIGHT-Titan]

I finished a match against a tomb king army the other day.. and maybe it's just how things went, but my Engine of the Gods was a severe offensive disappointment.

I chose 1 Dispel scroll and Diadem of Power, so I'd have lots of dispel dice.With the Engine I had 6 Dispel dice if I saved 2 from my Power Dice.

It did mean his Casket of Souls was basically neutralized but at like 400+ points to essentially neutralize a 160pt model it was pretty irritating.

I did win the match, but when it came time to use Burning Alignment, on the 2 turns I got to use it, I rolled 8" both times, which the first time hit nothing, and the second time only hit his chariots, dealing 1 or 2 wounds, can't remember exactly.

Maybe something else would have worked better is I guess all I'm wondering, and I'm debating putting my priest on foot and turning the steg into an ancient with a chief.

I guess I may have just rolled poorly, but it was very irritating to have spent 440ish points on a model that did way less for me offensively than my Cold One Cavalry.

 

[Wolf]

Well, rolling 8" range is already above average, maybe try to get him in closer I understand that might be more difficult against TK because of the magical charges, but that's part of the game get his units stuck in CC then cruise behind his lines and start setting of the nuke

 

[walach]

the first game i used my EotG was against dark elves, i moved it up to his 5 cold one cavalry, all killed in one burning alignment. i was pretty happy with that!

imo there aren't many great targets for the burning alignment against TKs, as you want stuff that is low T, high save and high points cost - just point it at some chosen chaos knights and start laughing.

the other thing to do is get it into combats where you're fairly confident it's in no danger of getting killed, at least then you're definetley in range of something

 

[RIGHT-Titan]

Yeah I realize that 8" is slightly above average.. It was just disappointing.. the one time the stega actually got into close combat though it messed up his chariots really good...

I was actually trying to move up the eotg to get it within range of one of his units stuck in CC with my CoC, but he charged a unit of skinks, eventually they broke (passed 3 tests first lol) and the pursuit of the 2 remaining skinks brought him into base contact with my priest on stegadon, so I never really had a chance to get him into combat with the smaller units it could have decimated.

Yeah I figure next time it would be more beneficial to have the portent of warding on to defend against his archers more.

 

[erians]

The EoTG is fantastic, just takes some time to get used to (like any unit). You should count on gettin around a 7" range on the Alignment, which produces a 14" giant bubble (actually its slightly bigger than 14" because of the base size, so more like 16"+) that cause damage to everything inside. Dont forget to use it when you are in close combat, as that's when its most effecient.

The thing about lizardmen shooting is that it sucks against heavily armored foes. It takes 36 poioson shots to take out a knight, salamander shots won't hit enought knights to do reliable damage even if they shoot from the flank (5 partial hits at best, 2.5 hit. 0.4-0.8 depending on T and 1+ or 2+ save and thats a perfect hit from the flank ! Usually you'll only get 2-3 partials), and razordons can't really pierce armor well either, getting 5 shots off, hitting 2.5, wounding 0.8-1.25 depening on T, killing 0.41 against T3 2+ save knights (the weakest knights possible).

The Burning Alignment takes out 1-2 knights depending on T but regardless of save, and is very random which means you can easily be booming off 3-4 knights if you roll good on the hits (the less dice you roll the more random it gets). It offers protection and offence against units that lizardmen struggle against otherwise (like catapults, cannons, BTs, knights or even heavily armored infantry).

Maybe something else would have worked better is I guess all I'm wondering, and I'm debating putting my priest on foot and turning the steg into an ancient with a chief.

If you don't want to take a priest, then the EoTG is very pricy. If you still are going to take a priest you pay 20 pts for an engine (ancient steg: X75, engine: X90). 20 pts for an undispellable and flexible magic casting device, +1 PD and potentially +1DD, the ability to cast with 4 dice (which is a MUST if you ever want to land a Comet with your priest). It can still do anything a regular stegadon can do and is an awesome all around one-model army. +1 caster level (which is basically what you get) usually costs 40 pts, so the engine is actually cheaper than a regular ancient. Don't get unrealistic expectations tho, it won't play the game for you (its not a Bloodthirster!), you still have to use it properly. In the end it all comes down to play style too, so if you don't like it after trying it out a couple of times then you don't have to take it.

Just consider that the Skink priest with War spear costs around the same ptsa and gets +1D6 S6 on the charge, while the engine gets +D6 S4 ignore save hits on the charge and every round after that (and even in some rounds when its not in combat).

 

[kroxigor01]

The EoTG is one of those units that if you didn't get to use, you won anyway. Often merely having it stand just behind a unit that can take a charge while threatening a sudden 12 + ~7 (needs wardrum to ensure the threat) burning alignment is enough to control a large section of the board.

 

[Bibamus]

actually skink shooting is very usefull against TK chariots with their 5+ armor save
also, if your priest was lvl 2 you should have had 7 DD wich does not shut down his casket alone, thats 3 DD wich come from a 25 point item and a dice from the army pool.
did his chariots manage to do anything to the stegadon? i had mine charged by chariots and they slowly lost combat because their S4 hits couldn't oenetrate the T6 and 3+ (4+) armor of teh steg nor the armor of the skinks on top.
an EotG can be a powerfull hammer in teh flanks but also a very nice anvil if used corectly, its not just burning alginment and +1 DD/PD
... but as others have said it does require indeed getting used to

 

[RIGHT-Titan]

His chariots broke on my stegadon like water.. I had it supported by a block of saurus too though.

It had already taken 4 wounds in magic, so it only had 1 and they couldn't deal it.

I usually saved 3-4 dice to dispell the casket... the magic I used was unfortunately routinely dispelled aswell..

 

[Wolf]

What power level is the casket?

 

[RIGHT-Titan]

I'm not really familiar with TK rules.. I know that he was using I believe 2 dice each time.. It's an Incantation as opposed to a spell or something...

So it's a little different.. Regardless.. I always saved 3 dice to counter it.. and occasionally as many as 4.

 

[Bibamus]

its power lvl is 2D6 and your EotG should have had 2 wounds left after taking 4

 

[Wolf]

Ok, then saving 4 seems a bit much to me, you should be able to stop his power level 2D6 fairly easily with 3 dice, the average for 3 dice is almost the same as the best on 2 ;-)

And I'm fairly certain an Ancient Steg has 5 wounds Bibamus

 

[Bibamus]

hmm.... i could have sworn it had 6, good thing mine never suffered more than 3 in a game

 

[Wolf]

It has T6 and S6 though

 

[stumpyfjord]

The casket is dangerous to lizardmen because we operate on a lot of ld 6 troops and the casket does damage like a banshees scream. Cold blooded doesn't matter when they are rolling against our leadership. I can understand holding back 4 dice at the beginning of the game. Hunting down the casket would be one of my first objectives since it contains a pretty big portion of his magic power.

I've been, at times, unimpressed by the EoTG as well. I think that it comes down to the fact that the burning alignment is a very dicey ability. If you roll low for the range, if you roll low for the number of hits, or if you wiff on the 'to wound' rolls could all cause it to fail. Since playing with the Engine more I've realized that I had bought into the hype. The engine is often times portrayed as the be all end all of everything and it just isn't. It is good but isn't an instant win. You have to realize that walking in to the game. My appreciation for the EoTG has also improved with my (finally) understanding that Lizardmen are a turn 4-6 army.

Finally, the power of the Charge + Burning Alignment can really kill a lot of models.

 

[Bibamus]

yes charge is nice, also this is a dice game. if a bloodthirster fumbles all his hits and to wounds he sucks, he is probably the worst character in the game. if a skink cohort unit manages to take out a full plaguebereare+herald bunker in 1 turn they are the most awesome unit in warhammer. the power of the ungine is in the random dice rolls, if it wouldn't be for that randomness it would be a I WIN button

 

[stumpyfjord]

You are correct Bibamus, Warhammer involves dice and dice produce randomness. However, to consistently win, as I'm sure you are aware, it is important to reduce the role of luck as much as possible. Fluffing all of your attacks with a Bloodthirste, in your example, is unlikely due to hatred and its impressive strength. On the other hand, charging cohorts into plaquebearers expecting to win would be silly, because the odds are very much against the Lizardmen player.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. I'll try to be more explicit here. I can sympathize with the original poster's feelings that the Engine isn't worth its points. Don't give up on your EoTG, it can be a game winner but it can also be somewhat worthless. Your best bet to get good offensive results from your EoTG in the magic phase, in my experience, is to get it as close as possible of high cost, heavily armored, mid toughness things (i.e. Heavy Cavalry) that lose effectiveness with single wounds quickly.

As has been mentioned, the Tomb Kings army doesn't have a large number of these.

 

[RIGHT-Titan]

Yeah that's what I've found.. It's a good unit.. but it very much depends on having a block of saurii in front of it.

I move them all up the flank or middle or wherever and engage something in CC with the saurus, then park the eotg behind them hitting with magic and burning alignment. I just pop the ward save against ranged attacks till they get there.

If the opportunity to flank with it comes up I take it sometimes but other times its advantageous to just park it behind whatever is engaging in front of it and let burning rip.

I've had mixed results, and sometimes it's the worst unit on the field for me.. so maybe I'm just not good at using it or maybe that's how it goes sometimes..but it always draws attention and that alone probably saves some of my other units which does give me back some value on it every game.