AoS EotG + Combat Artifact

[SkinkBait]

When giving a combat artifact to a hero normally the mount cannot benefit. The Engine of the Gods however (being the machine on the back of a stegadon) doesn't have any weapons to affect. Or is the entire thing the Engine?

To put it simply can I use the Sword of Judgement on an Engine of the Gods' crushing stomps attacks?

 

[Canas]

The "hero" is the priest on the stegadon's back. The "weapon" he wields would be the engine itself. So yeah, the EoTG has no weapons that can be affected by artifacts.

So no you cannot put the sword on the stegadon's stomp attacks.

 

[ILKAIN]

 

[Workschmock]

It's complicated and wonky but I would argue that you can't.
1.what is exactly the EOtG?
Warscroll tells us: It is a single model crewed by a skink priest ... - > points to the stegadon being the engine BUT
2. (marked in yellow) The stegadon bearing the engine - > reveals that the engine is a construct, carried by a stegadon and carrying a skink priest - > thus the attacks of the stegadon are not the attacks of the engine.. BUT
3. the warscrolls name is Engine of the Gods, thus the whole model is an EotG and bears all its keywords - > it is a hero - > it can have an item BUT its mount cannot.
4. Unlike every other mounted heroes, for example a Lord-Celestant on Dracoth, the EotGs Description does not fit the standard of a hero on a mount. It is, kind of, a mount of itself (plz someone draw an EotG mounting another EotG or itself! XD)
5. It comes down to the question of how we define mounted heroes exactly, bc tbh the skink priest is more of a passenger right now.
6. I hope you all get now, why I said this is a wonky situation...
7. In comparison to the stegadon which can (but does not have to) carry a skink alpha and lacks the hero keyword, the EotG always carries a priest and the actual engine around and has the hero keyword I would argue to define a mount which is carrying a hero as a mounted hero and thus deny the Stegadon to get any weapon artifacts.. Give it ignax's scales or something

 

[Canas]

weirdly enough the EoTG is the only one that has this issue. Every other unit that's essentially a walking shrine manned by a priest (chaos warshrine, Screaming bell, plaque furnace etc) all have their rider have an actual attack. Though it's Always the weakest attack & doesn't really make much sense. I mean what is that chaos priest going to do on his warshrine with is sacrificial knife? Climb down each time he wants to stab someone?

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

I mean what is that chaos priest going to do on his warshrine with is sacrificial knife? Climb down each time he wants to stab someone?

That is not much different to what our Scar vet on Carnosaur has to do when using his bite-attack though

 

[Canas]

That is not much different to what our Scar vet on Carnosaur has to do when using his bite-attack though

The scar vet attacks with shield & jaws, given how he rides I can see him being able to hit something, though most of that will be done with the shield. Especially against equally sized targets. Against smaller targets the carnosaur probably has to throw up a target to share with its master. Which to be honest also feels appropriate.

For the chaos shrine it just feels weird though. The easiest target would be the monsters carrying it, so why even go near the priest. The only situation in which I'd see the priest stab at something would be against flyers, or a big target like a carnosaur, though in either case I'd expect the priest to be kind of horribly murdered rather quickly (unless the gods really favor him).

Imho, the stegadons are actually really nice in this sense, the heroes don't do anything, but they do have enough of a crew with pointy sticks to discourage people from attacking the howdah directly. The chaos shrine doesn't. It just has a single guy with a knife, which doesn't seem to effective.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

The scar vet attacks with shield & jaws, given how he rides I can see him being able to hit something, though most of that will be done with the shield. Especially against equally sized targets. Against smaller targets the carnosaur probably has to throw up a target to share with its master. Which to be honest also feels appropriate.

Umm, I think our opinions differ here. The way I picture it, it would look quite comical if the Scar vet were to attack anything infantry-sized, and the first time I read the 'Against smaller targets the carnosaur probably has to throw up a target to share with its master' I thought you meant like a bird throwing up food for its chicks What I think you mean is that the Carnosaur lunges the enemy into the air, in such a way as to give the scar vet an opportunity to attack. Maybe that would work, but it still seems silly imo; I guess it is just not meant to be thought about too carefully.

 

[Canas]

Umm, I think our opinions differ here. The way I picture it, it would look quite comical if the Scar vet were to attack anything infantry-sized, and the first time I read the 'Against smaller targets the carnosaur probably has to throw up a target to share with its master' I thought you meant like a bird throwing up food for its chicks What I think you mean is that the Carnosaur lunges the enemy into the air, in such a way as to give the scar vet an opportunity to attack. Maybe that would work, but it still seems silly imo; I guess it is just not meant to be thought about too carefully.

O yeah, stabbing infantry who are still firmly on the ground would be difficult.

As for the throwing, look here at 1 min in, the carnosaur clearly can juggle quite well. I'm sure a carnosaur and his rider could learn to make that into some sort of vaguely effective cooperative attack. It's a tad silly, but it feels appropriate enough in a situation where a small dinosaur, who's somehow a peerless warrior, is riding a giant dinosaur who it can instinctivly command

 

[SkinkBait]

It's complicated and wonky but I would argue that you can't.
1.what is exactly the EOtG?
Warscroll tells us: It is a single model crewed by a skink priest ... - > points to the stegadon being the engine BUT
2. (marked in yellow) The stegadon bearing the engine - > reveals that the engine is a construct, carried by a stegadon and carrying a skink priest - > thus the attacks of the stegadon are not the attacks of the engine.. BUT
3. the warscrolls name is Engine of the Gods, thus the whole model is an EotG and bears all its keywords - > it is a hero - > it can have an item BUT its mount cannot.
4. Unlike every other mounted heroes, for example a Lord-Celestant on Dracoth, the EotGs Description does not fit the standard of a hero on a mount. It is, kind of, a mount of itself (plz someone draw an EotG mounting another EotG or itself! XD)
5. It comes down to the question of how we define mounted heroes exactly, bc tbh the skink priest is more of a passenger right now.
6. I hope you all get now, why I said this is a wonky situation...
7. In comparison to the stegadon which can (but does not have to) carry a skink alpha and lacks the hero keyword, the EotG always carries a priest and the actual engine around and has the hero keyword I would argue to define a mount which is carrying a hero as a mounted hero and thus deny the Stegadon to get any weapon artifacts.. Give it ignax's scales or something

I would be inclined to agree with you given all your solid research and evidence, but what do you say about this part of the warscroll? The Unstoppable Stampede ability clearly states the Engine is attacking with its crushing stomps.

I don't wanna be a RAW kinda guy but if this can help all Seraphon players I'm all for it.

 

[Crowsfoot]

@ASSASSIN_NR_1 and @Canas

The Scar vet uses his tail to hold onto the saddle then swings down and attacks his prey, the Carny also throws prey up for him to butcher, picture it you know it looks awesome, it works leave it, move along now

 

[Workschmock]

@SkinkBait: The problem us, that at best, this line contradicts the other parts of the warscroll which proves that this warscroll is lackluster and needs correction. My advise would be to contact the GW rules departement for clarity, and until then just ask the opponent if he is fine with your solution. Tbh I think the Sword of Judgement on an EotG is a joke compared to other options since it is very easy for a skilled player to dmg it and reduce the attacks of the Engine. And against a bad player/newbie I would deem it bad sportmanship to (ab)use this badly worded warscroll. If you want an alternative you could ally in a 100 pts Lord-Celestant with the SoJ and buff him to 5 attacks which do d3/d6 Mortals on a 2+ to hit (4 CP).
Strictly RAW it is an unclear state of the rules so I guess on a tournament it would be forbidden. I'd have a bad consiousness using the engine like that, it's up to you how you will deal with the problem.