AoS Endless Spells and Kroak/Slaan

[Boshea]

So anyone got any idea on how to use the new endless spells with Slaan and Kroak. Kroak on a Balewind seems pretty nasty, as well as having Slaan launch Predator spells out of Skinks. Once I get my Bloodclaw painted up looking at building around that Balewind Kroak idea. Probably just wrap him in an Eternal Starhost while he lays ruin to battle field.

 

[Deed525]

So anyone got any idea on how to use the new endless spells with Slaan and Kroak. Kroak on a Balewind seems pretty nasty, as well as having Slaan launch Predator spells out of Skinks. Once I get my Bloodclaw painted up looking at building around that Balewind Kroak idea. Probably just wrap him in an Eternal Starhost while he lays ruin to battle field.

Ai I’m looking at a list with the same logistics.
Basically;
-Kroak Sat on a Balewind, cogs at his feet with a prismatic palisade blocking one angle - Astrolith bearer at the ready and a pair of skink priests either side of the army.
-two EoG either side to benefit from re-rolls and slaans extra dice - thank you for the free units of skink/walls of flesh.

Just sit back turn one pumping out the endless spells that give you more spells and sucking up some celestial points, turn two spit out a shiny new unit...because why not, probably a warden to suck up some wounds + he’s cool.
And as soon as the enemy are in eye sight (which will be pretty much straight away)
Hello 6 spells a turn that are easier to cast with longer range, a skink either side to funnel predatory spells through (thinking jaws, swords, gravetide and pendulum) to create one hell of a killing ground (and ofc you can send out Kroaks meteors and spirits as you see fit)

Pretty sure he’s a game breaker...oh yeah and there is the rest of your army that can do as they please ;D defo got a dread Saurian in there for poops n giggles.

 

[Taipan]

I wouldn't put Kroak in the role of summoning caddy tbh. He has way higher damage potential with just an Umbral Spellportal or teleporting him into enemy lines. Regular Slann don't do any real damage, so it's better as your summoning machine (plus gives you access to double teleport, which is a very nice tool). Running the math on summoning, even with max roll on Astrolith Kroak can only just get the Dread Saurian out Turn 2 assuming no dispels/unbinds of Balewind or Cogs. You won't hit 24 summoning points till Turn 2 at least, so your summoning options are still in the same bracket as a regular Slann.

Keep in mind that you only get one Endless spell per Wizard per hero phase, and you may need to be recasting Palisade, Balewind and/or Cogs if they get unbound or dispelled by enemy Wizards. I would also cast Palisade first every time, as unbinding and dispel both require Line of Sight (which means until the Palisade goes away, you can keep your Balewind and Cogs safe behind it).

Predatory Spells can also be a serious risk, because the player going second always gets first move. Jaws, Swords and Gravetide are all bad anyway, don't waste points and casting slots on them. Pendulum and Gemnids are the way to go if you want consistent damage (Gemnids is particularly nice as they always trigger and their debuffs wreck both melee and shooting units). Another bit of utility I'd consider, mainly because it's so cheap, is Soulsnare Shackles. If you land it in the right spot, you can severely disrupt enemy movement (not simply if it triggers, but just because they will want to avoid it). It's especially crippling for melee hordes, as it's worded as 'per unit' and affects in an AOE, rolling separately for each. Halving movement or forcing them to go around will buy you extra shooting time, or another chance to summon free units.

 

[Deed525]

I wouldn't put Kroak in the role of summoning caddy tbh. He has way higher damage potential with just an Umbral Spellportal or teleporting him into enemy lines. Regular Slann don't do any real damage, so it's better as your summoning machine (plus gives you access to double teleport, which is a very nice tool). Running the math on summoning, even with max roll on Astrolith Kroak can only just get the Dread Saurian out Turn 2 assuming no dispels/unbinds of Balewind or Cogs. You won't hit 24 summoning points till Turn 2 at least, so your summoning options are still in the same bracket as a regular Slann.

Keep in mind that you only get one Endless spell per Wizard per hero phase, and you may need to be recasting Palisade, Balewind and/or Cogs if they get unbound or dispelled by enemy Wizards. I would also cast Palisade first every time, as unbinding and dispel both require Line of Sight (which means until the Palisade goes away, you can keep your Balewind and Cogs safe behind it).

Predatory Spells can also be a serious risk, because the player going second always gets first move. Jaws, Swords and Gravetide are all bad anyway, don't waste points and casting slots on them. Pendulum and Gemnids are the way to go if you want consistent damage (Gemnids is particularly nice as they always trigger and their debuffs wreck both melee and shooting units). Another bit of utility I'd consider, mainly because it's so cheap, is Soulsnare Shackles. If you land it in the right spot, you can severely disrupt enemy movement (not simply if it triggers, but just because they will want to avoid it). It's especially crippling for melee hordes, as it's worded as 'per unit' and affects in an AOE, rolling separately for each. Halving movement or forcing them to go around will buy you extra shooting time, or another chance to summon free units.

I like your thinking, I just hashed together a list including both kroak and a slaan (kroak for damage and endless spells, slaan for summoning) got an eternity warband in there for extra protection and combat punch, actually quite like the looks of it.

 

[Joshua Horchler]

Don't forget the power of Kroak and Shadowstrike. The best way to make your Kroak/Slann/Endless spells crush your opponent is to kill their mages. Shadowstrike is an amazing pair with Kroak because you can use the rippers to finish off weakened mages/heroes after Kroak explodes. Even if the Rippers die the next round, if you took out their only spell casters, you can rule the board with your endless spells and Kroak can't be unbound or dispelled from his Vortex.

Also my favorite new addition to Shadowstrike is the Skink Starpriest with the new Prism of Amynotk and Aethervoid Pendulum. You can teleport him into enemy lines, he is small model so it will be harder for you opponent to completely block him out, and then use his artefact and cast the pendulum. Combined it will do D9 mortal wounds to one unit and potentially more D6 mortal wounds if the enemy bunches up with their units. It's a great little bomb that pairs well with Kroak and Deep striking rippers.

 

[Aginor]

Jaws, Swords and Gravetide are all bad anyway,

I have played a game with the Jaws and have to disagree there. It did as much damage as the Purple Sun did in fact.

 

[Joshua Horchler]

my biggest thing about jaws is that it comes right back at you. I know you are most likely 18 inches away from the enemy but it still bothers me a little bit. That's why IMO the Pendulum is the way to go. The fact that it is stuck on its path makes it so if you get a Starpriest into enemy lines, it isnt coming back. D6 is nice too.

I really need to play some games with the new spells to get a feel for them, but IMO the ones that your opponent has less control over, the better.

 

[Taipan]

It's why I'm keen to try Soulsnare Shackles. They don't move, and at least in my local meta there a lot of infantry-heavy melee armies that will hate getting halved movement and randomly losing D3 dudes. Even just as area denial to annoy people, I think for 20 points it's well worth it.

 

[Tokek]

my biggest thing about jaws is that it comes right back at you. I know you are most likely 18 inches away from the enemy but it still bothers me a little bit. That's why IMO the Pendulum is the way to go. The fact that it is stuck on its path makes it so if you get a Starpriest into enemy lines, it isnt coming back. D6 is nice too.

I really need to play some games with the new spells to get a feel for them, but IMO the ones that your opponent has less control over, the better.

So long as you have an astrolith on the table you can avoid Jaws coming back at you for a couple of turns, by which time you can have moved anyway. The nature of these spells is that you cannot be caught out by the double-turn with them because you would be the one moving it in that case. My issue with Jaws is that I want to use it as part of a battleshock bomb but that would put my Saurus right up close to it where they really do not want to be!

Until I get in some games I really do not want to draw too many conclusions. Taking Jaws as an example again the model is huge, that is going to have a real impact on how it plays in the game but I am not sure what that impact will be yet.

 

[tom]

I would also cast Palisade first every time, as unbinding and dispel both require Line of Sight (which means until the Palisade goes away, you can keep your Balewind and Cogs safe behind it).

Where are you getting this info from please, it came up in a game last night. I can't find anything in the core rules about needing Los to unbind, the only reference is on the spell warscroll (pick a unit that you can see within 18").

Thanks

 

[Deed525]

Where are you getting this info from please, it came up in a game last night. I can't find anything in the core rules about needing Los to unbind, the only reference is on the spell warscroll (pick a unit that you can see within 18").

Thanks

It’s a 30” from enemy casters right? If they can reach it they can dispel it (unless they are a slaan or equivalent caster with a longer/infinite range) pretty sure that doesn’t need los but may be wrong.

 

[Crowsfoot]

Where are you getting this info from please, it came up in a game last night. I can't find anything in the core rules about needing Los to unbind, the only reference is on the spell warscroll (pick a unit that you can see within 18").

Thanks

It’s a 30” from enemy casters right? If they can reach it they can dispel it (unless they are a slaan or equivalent caster with a longer/infinite range) pretty sure that doesn’t need los but may be wrong.

We discussed this last week as I have not seen anything about LoS for dispelling, @Aginor referred to a thread over on TGA.

 

[Crowsfoot]

Page 53 of the Malign Sorcery book under UNBINDING and DISPELLING

In order to dispel an endless spell,
first pick an endless spell model
within 30" of the wizard and visible
to them, and roll 2D6

So you do need LoS

 

[Aginor]

Oh and another thing about the Jaws that might make them better:
Endless spells are auto-dispelled if they move over the edge of the table.
The good movement characteristic (12") of the Jaws could enable you to cast them, roll over some enemy units and right off the table.

 

[Deed525]

Page 53 of the Malign Sorcery book under UNBINDING and DISPELLING

In order to dispel an endless spell,
first pick an endless spell model
within 30" of the wizard and visible
to them, and roll 2D6

So you do need LoS

Ahh good a man who reads ;D (I haven’t yet actually got the rules - just going off what I’ve seen (I intend to get the models soon enough though)

While you are here - once you have payed for the spell do you get as many casts as you like, or is it pay once use one/can you pay for multiples? (Probably answered elsewhere - but I’m lazy)

 

[ILKAIN]

Ahh good a man who reads ;D (I haven’t yet actually got the rules - just going off what I’ve seen (I intend to get the models soon enough though)

While you are here - once you have payed for the spell do you get as many casts as you like, or is it pay once use one/can you pay for multiples? (Probably answered elsewhere - but I’m lazy)

you can cast them over and over again so long as the number of casts on the board at the same time doesn't exceed your physical models. im not sure if you have to "buy" two vortexes in points to use the two vortexes simultaneously, but if you pay for one and its dispelled you can recast it.

 

[Aginor]

No you cannot use two BWV.
I just looked it up, page 48 of my GHB2018 says that you can only have one model of a spell per army.

 

[Deed525]

No you cannot use two BWV.
I just looked it up, page 48 of my GHB2018 says that you can only have one model of a spell per army.

So one of each ‘per army’ at a time, so you can recast once dispelled and potentially have two purple suns bobbing around (one from each army) ?

 

[Aginor]

So one of each ‘per army’ at a time, so you can recast once dispelled and potentially have two purple suns bobbing around (one from each army) ?

Yes.

 

[Deed525]

Yes.

New respect for endless predators lol, that’s it I’m having an army of chameleons