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8th Ed. End Times is now official. Updated rules. LM am cry Q.Q

Pepticsalve said:
Our gaming group is having a huge discussion about this FAQ on FB at the moment. General concensus is its a money making scheme by GW (no surprise there) but none of us like the rule at all - even those who play armies that would benefit massively from it, such as WoC... Its going to wreck game balance being able to field 75% characters... Next they'll be dropping 25% core and 3 unit minimum requirement and people will turn up with an army of three dragons with characters....
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Tournaments will have restrictions and friends should be able to come up with a reasonable solution. PUGs are the worst and in this case it's simply about not playing against opponents you know will abuse this.
 
GCPD said:
Because I don't think Lizardmen can do well in a triple Daemon Prince environment.
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But you can have 3 Old Bloods cowboys, a Slann, and 5-6 Scar Vet Cowboys with minimum core (ideally just skink skirmishers. Cowboys are already a core piece of lizardmen armies, and are easily some of the most points efficient choices.

IDK about you, but turning all of those cowboys into a unit would be pretty scary for WoC even if they had triple DP.

Lizardmen, High Elves, VC, and Dark elves probably got the most significant boost from the 50% lords/Heroes limit. Dark rider buses just got even stronger, VC can take more ethereal characters for the front line, and Lizardmen I've already mentioned.

I can't see OnG, Empire, Skaven, Dwarfs, Beastmen, Bretts, or Tomb Kings using the 50% lord/hero limit effectively. WoC will probably take a DP or Chaos Lord and a lvl 4 with the same things they already take.

All it does for most of the other armies is give them a better deathstar.

LM benefit because their combat characters can solo units, and are possibly the best choice in the list. Elf lists benefit for similar reasons to Lizards, but with greater lore access on their wizards, they can boost the characters more reliably.
 
Okay, I'll rephrase. I don't think a fun Lizardmen list can do well in a competitive environment. Skinks + Slann + 8-9 Saurus characters is the Lustrian equivalent of Seven Samurai, and not a game of massed fantasy battles (which is the reason I have been enjoying 8th so much).
 
The one thing that ruined the Blade of Realities for me was the nail-biting and wondering whether my Oldblood would survive to strike. Now we can afford a light slann to buff the guy to ASF and I10... That's at least one fun list that I'm going to enjoy playing about with.

Not to mention the fact that we are going to /need/ to ignore wards and armour more often, with all these characters running around.
 
Your plan of tackling deamon princes with scar vett Death unit will not work. If they are clever they will issue a challenge and kill you one by one.

20 Skink chiefs and a beast slann though for all those s7 javalins XD
 
sixclaw said:
Your plan of tackling deamon princes with scar vett Death unit will not work. If they are clever they will issue a challenge and kill you one by one.
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But if you are smarter you bring them in a cold one unit and refuse the challenge, he choses one but takes the whole bunch of attacks.

Lets say you bring 4 Scarvets. He sends one in the back and fights against the other 3.

Also lets say you want to fight with augments & hexes and you got charged. Challenge with your champion and wait for your turn to smack the pesky demon.

The big problem with DP is the purple Sun.
 
Man0waR said:
sixclaw said:
Your plan of tackling deamon princes with scar vett Death unit will not work. If they are clever they will issue a challenge and kill you one by one.
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But if you are smarter you bring them in a cold one unit and refuse the challenge, he choses one but takes the whole bunch of attacks.

Lets say you bring 4 Scarvets. He sends one in the back and fights against the other 3.

Also lets say you want to fight with augments & hexes and you got charged. Challenge with your champion and wait for your turn to smack the pesky demon.

The big problem with DP is the purple Sun.
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If only we could kill a DP in one round. The prince will likely be nurgle and 2 OBs along with 2 SVs will only do 3 wounds after armour and ward.

Unfortunately this'll allow the prince to potentially 6-dice purple sun and ruin your day. If not he likely die in the following round.

Tbh though that's a lot of points just to take down one guy lol.

**EDIT**

One OB with piranha blade and potion of strenght would on average do 2 wounds. Also dat S8 + AP is brutal and the prince is only left with a 5+ ward AFAIK.

Aother OB and 2 SVs with GWs will do roughly 1,9 wounds or so. So it *can* be done.

One can, however, also be unlucky and only do 1 wound with the piranha blad which would be very unfortunate since it's basically a one-shot chance due to the potion.

Alternatively have a Beast Slann nearby with the +3A/+3S bubble spell and plow through the DP as if he were nothing.
 
Its just occured to me that if you were to play using hardly any units (say min 3 units, min 25% core) and just characters and then you rolled for the blood and glory scenario (maybe in a tournament) then you might find yourself losing *very* quickly as you'd probably not have many standards in your army - since you have hardly any units and all your points are tied up in lords and heroes, and subsequently your starting fortitude would be really low, like 3 or 4... I think guys playing tournaments would be aware of this, and still make sure they bring at least 3 or 4 decent units with standard bearers...

I've had tme to digest this rule since yesterday, and actually I don't really mind it, since I still think the optimum way to run an army will always be to include some of the special or rare choices - regardless of what army you are using, and putting all your points in 2 or 3 characters is far too risky. I doubt you'd see many armies maxed out with lords and heroes - and actually it gives a nice bit of flexability for using slightly higher priced characters in lower points value games, where you might only want to take a single character, but they might account for 30% or 35% of your total army composition. There'd still be plenty of units on the battlefield, but you'd get a bit more flexability as well if you wanted it...
 
I played a demon army at 1600 points with 2x Demon Princes and some weird rock lobbing demon thing and I'd have thrashed him due to skink poisoned attrition if it wasn't for a single spell that killed my stegadon and bastilodon. As it happens it was a draw and he's not a rubbish player.

The game has in-built tools to help balance things out i.e. purple sun, dwellers below, spirit leech to name a few. Lizards have access to all of these. If the opponent is highly armoured you can take Metal magic. If the opponent is high toughness you take skinks. If they have only a few models try and redirect them. Ultimately I think a balanced list will ultimately win out with some changes in the meta to account for the possibility of facing a 3 model army :D

Anyway there will be an entirely new edition soonish.
 
As long as they don't reintroduce Flying High then I'm down with this. Kind of excited for Dual Slann, or Slann + Carno, or seeing if I can put together a Magnificent Seven cowboy list.
 
I plan on taking 2 kitted out old bloods and a toad, all Lords and no heroes. Usually the good magic items is enough to build 2 or maybe 3 cowboys, after that they lose ward save or re roll.

Or try the steamroller: 2 units of saurus in core, 30 TG and loads of cheap footslogging scarvets and old bloods... deploy, and start walking across the board and herd the enemy, should be difficult to maneuver around unless they are flying.
 
Screamer said:
Or try the steamroller: 2 units of saurus in core, 30 TG and loads of cheap footslogging scarvets and old bloods... deploy, and start walking across the board and herd the enemy, should be difficult to maneuver around unless they are flying.
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I tried a low-magic build with 3 beast priests, 3 oldbloods and 3 scar vets at 2400 points. 2 25-man saurus blocks with FC as core, and a 30 man TG unit. Basically no skinks aside from the priests.

I had a pair of saurus characters in each block. 1 scarvet and 1 oldblood.

Saurus unit 1: Scarvet w/ crown of command, lightarmour and a GW, armour of Fortune and Ogre blade
Saurus unit 2: Scarvet w/ Egg, lightarmour and a GW - AoD, Shield and Piranha blade

Temple Guard unit: BSB Scarvet with enchanted shield, lightarmour and luckstone - Oldblood w/ dragonhelm, lightarmour, potion of strength, sword of striking, shield, talisman of preservation.

This was surprisingly effective. The priests all had the signature (despite how much I wanted Horros), which almost constantly kept at least 2 wyssans active on different blocks. This was against VC player.

He couldn't keep blocks away from me, because 3 blocks of death advancing from several sides just wasn't something you dealt with. His vampire lords challenge went to a lowly champion, who then got butchered - while his unit dropped like flies around him. I got rear charged and lost one combat by quite a bit againstthe rearcharging Vargulf and a charging block of grave guards with 3 characters - only for it to be stubborn, manage the test, and then absolutely DESTROY them the next combat.

Luck was a bit on my side, but considering it was a silly attempt with the new rules, it worked far better than I had expected. The sheer amount of hurt those charaters dish out is nothing to sneeze at, and with Wyssan support, the entire blocks put out a lot of hurt, while also being tough nuts to crack for S3 units. Even the "blender" vampire lord had to admit that the scaled lizardmen was simply too tough to just slaughter his way through (like he usually does).

I probably wouldn't want to face a chaos player with these, but luckily, I have no chaos players in my group ;)

And really, because of the FAQ update, trying to "force" the 25% restrictions on anyone, is identical to forcing an opponent to play 7th edition. You are free to choose your opponents, but it doesn't seem right to expect others to follow older rules "because you don't like the new ones".
 
Slanputin said:
Pinktaco said:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html

50% characters, lore of undead, Undead Legion. It's all now a part of the updated rules.

Wood Elfs and UL have been updated. No LM.
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Are their *no* errata for LM at all? What happened to the old FAQs, or did they just decide to not bother move ours over...
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Why should they? They made a new book. One would assume they at least tried to cover the previous errata in the new book.
 
Pinktaco said:
Slanputin said:
Pinktaco said:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html

50% characters, lore of undead, Undead Legion. It's all now a part of the updated rules.

Wood Elfs and UL have been updated. No LM.
Click to expand...

Are their *no* errata for LM at all? What happened to the old FAQs, or did they just decide to not bother move ours over...
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Why should they? They made a new book. One would assume they at least tried to cover the previous errata in the new book.
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Well, there usually is Errata and FAQs for recent books considering there's always some confusion/clash between the new rulebook and BRB. For example, see the predatory fighter vs. supporting attacks, or Tiktaq'to and the issue about being to join other flying units.

Wasn't a errata/FAQ released for these? They don't seem to be anywhere anymore.
 
No. These are the only updates we've seen for WHFB since April last year.
 
SilverFaith said:
Screamer said:
This was surprisingly effective. The priests all had the signature (despite how much I wanted Horros), which almost constantly kept at least 2 wyssans active on different blocks. This was against VC player.
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How do you swing having multiple priests have the same spell? I was under the impression that two wizards couldn't have the same spell. I know certain items/special rules allow for it, but I'm not sure how/which ones outside of loremaster. If this is legit, I would love to implement it in some of my own lists. :D
 
You can allways have multiples of the default spell. (BRB rules)
 
n810,

I've been playing this game for years and yet you always seem to have the answers I'm looking for! Here I think I know my stuff, but there is some little detail I overlook. Thank you sir, your advice continues to be very helpful.
 
Thanks lordkingcrow,
I probaly get it from hanging aroung the forums Way too much. :D
 
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