8th Ed. Drain Magic

[NexS1]

Hi All,
Normally I wouldn't post something like this, but I've come across it in 2 separate places (once here and once via a friend) and figured I'd raise it for topical discussion.

The issue:
I've had (twice now, as above) someone mention that they cast Drain Magic in order to prevent hexes from being cast at the unit.

My stance:
Nowhere in the spell description does it say that it prevents further spells from being cast onto the target. As far as I'm concerned, all this spell does is dispel EVERYTHING (good and bad spells) that is currently affecting the target unit.


My question is, how many of you have seen people play this spell in the way I've described above ("the issue")? Alternatively if you play the spell that way, how do you justify it?


Thanks guys!

 

[hardyworld]

I believe the rules support your interpretation of the rule. There is no duration associated with the Drain Magic Spell (like many augment/hexes have) so the spell would only dispel spell effects at that time it is cast. When I first read the spell, I assumed it had the typical 1 turn duration and had thought the spell worked exactly how your friend describes, however upon further reading it obviously doesn't work that way.

Concerning what the spell dispels, it does not dispel "EVERYTHING" like you describe. Please see Question 7 here for some additional information concerning this: http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/lizardmen-8th-ed-faq.13582/

 

[NexS1]

I think it is mainly because people were used to the duration of effect which was present in the previous version of the spell.

The spell states that all Augments, Hexes and Remains in Play spells come to an end. The writeup on that link talks about lore attributes and how they are affected by Drain Magic. As I read the spell, the only thing that is dispelled are the effects of the hex/aug and so lore attributes wouldn't be touched. Granted, I haven't read every army book's attributes., but I strongly disagree that things like the HE attribute "when a spell is cast, add +1 to ward save" would not be altered because the attributes activates when they cast it. It has already been cast and resolved therefore you can't touch it.

 

[hardyworld]

This all lies in a gray area. According to the BRB (pg. 491) lore attributes are special rules that apply effects when spells are cast from its own lore. The Drain Magic spell says, in addition to its dispelling affect on RiP spells, "the effects of all other spells on the target unit immediately come to an end". Given both of those truths from the existing rules, we know lore attributes can be affected, but only the ones that are still in play at the time of casting Drain Magic. Questions come up on which spells are still considered 'in play' and which are not, which that question referenced tries to answer. Things like Raise Dead have already been cast and fully resolved and wouldn't be affected. Things like the HE lore attribute and Wither are ongoing spell effects that have not yet ended and could be affected. (All of this had to be explained to me too, but once I re-read the relevant sections of the rules this is how I understand it now, RAW.)

 

[NexS1]

I don't know all of the army book attributes but I know HE and the BRB attributes and I don't agree with affecting any of them.
I wouldn't make the lifebloom undone and take the regained wound (it is still technically in play) and I wouldn't make the shadow attribute return the two swapped models back. I think it's safer to simply leave them be.

It's gone a little off topic, but it's ok because it's opened another aspect!

 

[hardyworld]

That's why the question persists. The Life and Shadow attributes do not have ongoing effects (their results still have lingering game effects, but aren't spell effects 'in play'), however the HE High attribute does have an ongoing effect that could end by using Drain Magic (there aren't many attributes that could be affected by the wording of the DM spell, but they seem to exist).

 

[NexS1]

The high elf attribute states that every time a spell is cast, the caster and his unit get +1 to ward save.
Whether the spell effects are dispelled or not is irrelevant - the spell had already been successfully cast.
To me, there is no question in the attribute space.

 

[Lord Kroxti]

we've had the high elf lore attribute/ drain magic discussion before, and I think even on ulthuan.net they were agreeing that since the ward save is not permament, and will end naturally, it can be drained magic. However we all agreed it needs an FAQ to be definite, and we weren't holding our breath on it.

 

[NexS1]

Yeah.. I don't think well see any faq for some time...

 

[Pofadder]

Drain Magic's extent and scope is still an ongoing point of contention across forums. On TWF as well the subject has been resurrected in another thread.

The question of lore attributes with an effect in play did not even come up there yet (when I last read it). The questions surrounding this matter will become even more pertinent in lieu of the WE Light & Dark magic lore attributes. Those "tokens" will they fall within Drain Magic's scope of effects cancelled? Maybe not Dark? I do not have exact wording for the dark magic lore of the wood elves. Does it get used immediately? WE light magic lore attribute may be a contender in such a case.

To be honest I do not know what to make of it currently. There are many examples of spells which are discussed each with their own wording. Wither, plague of rust, etc etc...Where does the line get drawn? coz people will soon be casting it to cancel regrowth effects as ludicrous as that seems IMHO.

This is why we need support for the bloody expensive rulebooks and models we buy. We NEED a FAQ. Because each and every poster on the internet have their own interpretation of these things. (that thread on TWF is probably 15 pages ++ by now) With no definitive answer in sight. Each person belives their interpretation is correct.

I do not want to engage in the semantics over unclear rules for half a game. It detracts from the fun and speed of the game.

Come on GW stop being useless and at least clarify those shoddily written rules already!

 

[hardyworld]

I concur with you on every point, Pofadder. Preach on!

I don't know if WE High/Dark Magic Lore attributes are effected by Drain Magic like the current HE High Magic Lore attribute would be.

GW has left their customers too many unanswered questions over the last 2 years. The longer they go unanswered the less fun the game becomes (since rule interpretations between players slow the game down, sometimes significantly) and the fewer models we buy from GW.