8th Ed. Downside to Slann BSB

[GySgtDave]

Playing in a local league and discovered the downside to running a BSB Slann.

The game was going fairly well against my Dark Elf opponent until the bottom of the last tun of the match when things went all pear shaped.

My Slann BSB/Gen was bunkered in a unit of TG gets charged by a unit of Executioners. My Slann, who shall now be know as Cho'oks'alat, could not dispel anything to save its life and allowed the TG unit to get hit with two hexes debuffing the unit to near skink levels. The TG then proceed to go down faster than French border-guards on the German front leaving the Slann all alone. Even with the loss of the TG my opponent would have barely eeked out a draw.

Unfortunately Cho'oks'alat, since he no longer has his TG to be stubborn in, promptly fails his Leadership and since he is a BSB he has no chance to even run away and dies in place.

I may now have to strip the paint of the model and repaint it in an effort to wash away the stain of his failure.

 

[walach]

Yep, something i've encountered too often myself! Something to bear in mind is TG actually die easier than regular HWS saurus (as no parry).

What magic do you have on the slann? Any other characters in the unit? I've started running an oldbllod and scar veteran in my TG, both tank setups, they really reduce the pounding the TG take!

 

[Mr Phat]

I think you overdue it.

executioners are hard enough as it is. Add un-dispelled debuffs (this HAPPENS, especially against DE) and there is no wonder it happend the way it happend.

even if your slann got to run its still 50% that he would get out.
If he succeded to run, he would still be giving up half his points.


I think its the situation you need to avoid, not your Slann to blame.
A Slann is a golden toolbox, but odds are odds and dice may dice you.

 

[Lizardmatt]

I think you overdue it.

executioners are hard enough as it is. Add un-dispelled debuffs (this HAPPENS, especially against DE) and there is no wonder it happend the way it happend.

even if your slann got to run its still 50% that he would get out.
If he succeded to run, he would still be giving up half his points.


I think its the situation you need to avoid, not your Slann to blame.
A Slann is a golden toolbox, but odds are odds and dice may dice you.

No half points for fleeing in 8th edition.
The auto death isn't as bad as the bonus 200 victory points. The slann is an eggs all in one basket guy.

-Matt

 

[Scalenex]

Indeed, so make sure your basket is secure. It is a testament to the durability of a bunkered Slann that almost all of my lost Slann are due to auto-breaking as the BSB once all the TG are dead rather than dying to direct attacks or miscasts.

 

[Mr Phat]

No half points for fleeing in 8th edition.
The auto death isn't as bad as the bonus 200 victory points. The slann is an eggs all in one basket guy.-Matt

just me being used to ETC

 

[Andy06r]

This is why I don't run BSBs on solo slanns. Too easy for a unit of war hounds to charge you, win by 2, and break.

At least without a bsb you have a chance to outrun the pursuit. With the BSB you just die.

Slann + Infantry Old Blood often can't afford a bsb either due to lord limits.

 

[SilverFaith]

Might just be me, but I have never felt the BSB did all that much anyway. Waste of points, since the point spend on it could have been used on more/better units.

Especially the love for Banner of Discipline eludes me. +1 leadership hardly matters. I've never seen my TG bunker fail their leadership on Ld9. I simply don't feel the points are worth it.

I took a BSB last game, for my Scar-Vet cowboy in a bus, for the flaming attacks. Was up against wood elves, and I wouldn't have bothered otherwise.

 

[Ondjage]

Might just be me, but I have never felt the BSB did all that much anyway. Waste of points, since the point spend on it could have been used on more/better units.

Especially the love for Banner of Discipline eludes me. +1 leadership hardly matters. I've never seen my TG bunker fail their leadership on Ld9. I simply don't feel the points are worth it.

I took a BSB last game, for my Scar-Vet cowboy in a bus, for the flaming attacks. Was up against wood elves, and I wouldn't have bothered otherwise.

Might just be me

Yep, just you =)

 

[GCPD]

Might just be me, but I have never felt the BSB did all that much anyway. Waste of points, since the point spend on it could have been used on more/better units.

Especially the love for Banner of Discipline eludes me. +1 leadership hardly matters. I've never seen my TG bunker fail their leadership on Ld9. I simply don't feel the points are worth it.

I took a BSB last game, for my Scar-Vet cowboy in a bus, for the flaming attacks. Was up against wood elves, and I wouldn't have bothered otherwise.

Its insurance. And dirt cheap insurance, too. Just think of all the things that you use Leadership checks for: break tests, swift reform, Fear, Terror, Panic, rally, redirect charge, Frenzy, restrain pursuit. Some of these could mean the complete loss of an entire unit if they go wrong, or at the very least a flaw in the plan you've laid out. How many times have you flubbed one of those rolls with a double 6, or triple 6 with Cold Blooded? Or just missed a break test by 1? Why run the risk at all when for a mere 25 points you can eliminate it entirely; and for just another 15 get Leadership 10 for virtually nonexistent risk?

If you can honestly say that you've never had a critical Leadership role go against you, then you sir are a lucky man indeed. For the rest of us, we've seen way too many games hinge on something like that happening to take the risk. There are very good ways of spending 25 points for sure; few of them are ever as good as grabbing a BSB.

 

[Markhaus]

I love it for Spirit Leech.
40 pts for reroll leadership checks, 10 leadership to all within 12", AND +1 wound on spirit leech. Throw a blizzard or two on even LD 10 hero and its a good chance to kill pretty much anything.

 

[SilverFaith]

No, I have botched leadership tests before, and critical ones at that.

But it is just for the same reason I do not take, say, banner of jaguar. Swiftstride is nice for those slower units, but when I use it *maybe* once every 4 games, it just seems like unnecessary points spend.

I run primarily Saurus. Skinks functions as support, not as the backbone. They test on Ld8, which is roughly 10% chance to fail with cold blooded. Put down a slann, and the chance of failure drops to 5%. Tap on a Battle Standard to get the reroll, and the chance of failure on Ld9 is 0,3% chance.

If you then buy standard of discipline to grant the slann a Ld10, you now have a 0,1 % chance of failure. Sorry, but I'd rather spend those points elsewhere, even if it is merely 15 points for the discipline banner.

And 5% chance? This whole game is already based on luck. Mitigatng the random chance element is certainly for the best, but when the actual benefit is so small, I just don't see the point. Maybe a BSB, but Banner of Discipline seems like complete overkill. BSB has its place. I like giving a unit Flaming attacks, at least when I know I am likely to face things that are flamable or has regen. And of course combat res just doesn't feel that important when the whole unit is stubborn.

Hadn' even thought about Spirit Leech though. That's a fair point, I'll give you that, though I never really run Death Slanns. I sometimes use Shadow, because its fun jumping out of a sticking situation, but the leadership buff doesn't really benefit that school. S9 or 10 makes no difference, at least none that I have ever experienced.

 

[GCPD]

The Jaguar is different. In addition to being situational, its also much more expensive. Whereas, like I pointed out, there's far more uses for a BSB.

If you are comfortable with the risk then that's fine. Personally, I'd rather pay the modest amount if it gives me a second shot at preventing my 1000+ points Temple Guard and Slann from flubbing a break test.

My regular WoC opponent used to be the same and never bothered - till he got sick of his line breaking from a Salamander shot, or a break test just failed, etc.

 

[Ondjage]

I can understand the reasoning behind not running a BSB with an army like Tomb Kings, if you don't like the Tomb Herald - So the price for the BSB is basically around 100 points.. But our saurus scar veterans are so amazing, and are included in every list, so at 25 points, they are in my opinion mandatory in every army.

 

[Sunchax]

I love it for Spirit Leech.
40 pts for reroll leadership checks, 10 leadership to all within 12", AND +1 wound on spirit leech. Throw a blizzard or two on even LD 10 hero and its a good chance to kill pretty much anything.

I think spirit leach is on unmodified leadership so i guess you wont be getting any +1 when doing it.

 

[Markhaus]

From the GW FAQ unmodified leadership is basically modified leadership. It is really weird, but that seems to be the official ruling (I looked it up before deciding on that strategy). Stupid? Yes, but that's the rules.

 

[hdctambien]

From the GW FAQ unmodified leadership is basically modified leadership. It is really weird, but that seems to be the official ruling (I looked it up before deciding on that strategy). Stupid? Yes, but that's the rules

It may be worth noting that the current FAQs that GW put up on the Black Library are not actually the latest FAQ (I don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere else on this forum)

The latest FAQs were from April 2013 and the FAQs that are currently posted are the ones that came before April 2013. So the current FAQ doesn't have the "unmodified = modified" ruling in it, but the April 2013 FAQ did.

(The "what does unmodified mean" ruling has gone back and forth over the last 3 FAQs...)

 

[Andy06r]

I just noticed that the lizardman FAQ got pulled as well. (or did we never have one?)

 

[Ondjage]

I just noticed that the lizardman FAQ got pulled as well. (or did we never have one?)

Never had one =)

I imagine the old one was removed with the release of the new book.