8th Ed. Do we need a slann to be competitive?

[Kharn The Betrayer]

Do we need a slann at extremely competitive levels? Or can we get away with skink priests?

 

[Sleboda]

My opinion, after 13 games with the new book, is that yes, we do indeed need a Frog.

The main reason is High Magic.

So far in all my games I have been able to point to moments (often several) where I knew one of the High Magic spells would have made a HUGE difference in the outcome.

Don't get me wrong, I think Beasts and Heavens are nice lores for us, but nothing compares to having a monster move an additional 20" up the side of the enemy's lines, or being able to restore wounds to injured beasts, or boosting the Initiative of models facing Elves so they cannot reroll, or increasing the WS of Krox so they hit with those S7 attacks. In addition, you get some really nice damage spells to thin the enemy's ranks before engaging.

High Magic on a Frog is awesome. It's almost like the book was designed with the idea that most of the units would be what they "should" be only after getting High Magic support.

 

[Noveltyboy]

Just because you lose without it doesnt mean you would win with it. I always used to run a slaan but recently have won more games without. If I do run slaan its ethereal solo with whichever lore I think will compliment my army. On monday im running a carno lord, steggy bsb, skink priest with dispel scroll, couple units of saurus and 2 ancient steggys, just for fun.

Againts most armies I would argue salamanders are more auto take than slaan. Especially as high magic isnt as useful when your army hits cc suddenly your slaans got half his lore he cant use or target anything worth hitting.

 

[Mr Phat]

High Magic on a Frog is awesome. It's almost like the book was designed with the idea that most of the units would be what they "should" be only after getting High Magic support.

noticed this too. Dont know if its on purpose to symbolize that they need the grace of the old ones to work properly, of if its just because HM is such a powerful lore.

Againts most armies I would argue salamanders are more auto take than slaan. Especially as high magic isnt as useful when your army hits cc suddenly your slaans got half his lore he cant use or target anything worth hitting.

so of course you swap your ranged spells: convocation, tempest and Soul quench
into CC utility spells such as wyssans, miasma and maybe a roll on Heavens for harmonic convergence, curse of the midnight wind or just default it for iceshard blizzard

remember that if you go with loremaster it can even be okay to swap hand of glory or walk between worlds, as if you cast another HM spell later you have a REALLY good chance to either get it back or get something you already have for a free pick.

 

[MarchoftheStegs]

High Magic on a Frog is awesome. It's almost like the book was designed with the idea that most of the units would be what they "should" be only after getting High Magic support.

noticed this too. Dont know if its on purpose to symbolize that they need the grace of the old ones to work properly, of if its just because HM is such a powerful lore.

Againts most armies I would argue salamanders are more auto take than slaan. Especially as high magic isnt as useful when your army hits cc suddenly your slaans got half his lore he cant use or target anything worth hitting.

so of course you swap your ranged spells: convocation, tempest and Soul quench
into CC utility spells such as wyssans, miasma and maybe a roll on Heavens for harmonic convergence, curse of the midnight wind or just default it for iceshard blizzard

remember that if you go with loremaster it can even be okay to swap hand of glory or walk between worlds, as if you cast another HM spell later you have a REALLY good chance to either get it back or get something you already have for a free pick.

Yeah this is Why i have been a fan of the WD Slann he just got such a useful toolbox -1 to hit -d3 to M, I, WS. Fireball is the best long range magic missile in the game 10+ for 2d6 s4 hits at 36" Yes please. Shem's burning gaze (boosted) takes down high T low Armor monsters. Searing doom takes out anything with armor. Earthblood is a kind of Temple guard buffer against miscasts. Also We all know whjat wyssan can do fro TG, Saurus or Have you ever run it on Skink Skirmishers S4 javs.


That said I'n bored so I'm trying Lore o Light. LETS DO THIS.

 

[Putzfrau]

Considering I've literally never seen a non Slann list place top 3 at a tournament, I'm gonna say yes, they are required.

 

[Mr Phat]

That said I'n bored so I'm trying Lore o Light. LETS DO THIS.

Get a block of 6-8 WS10 I10 Kroxigors and watch EVERYTHING fall.

Get them A+1 and ASF and watch EVERYTHING fall FASTER

Im becoming a huge fan of Krox-blocks...but that is another thread

 

[Sleboda]

Just because you lose without it doesnt mean you would win with it.

=> Oh, for sure, I know. I'm not suggesting I would win with but, rather than I greatly improve my chances that I could win with it.

Remember, I am used to Tomb Kings. That army is ALL about tossing the right augments and hexes into the right situations at just the right time. High magic really reminds me of that.

 

[MarchoftheStegs]

That said I'n bored so I'm trying Lore o Light. LETS DO THIS.

Get a block of 6-8 WS10 I10 Kroxigors and watch EVERYTHING fall.

Get them A+1 and ASF and watch EVERYTHING fall FASTER

Im becoming a huge fan of Krox-blocks...but that is another thread

DEAR GOD YES.

First though i'm going to try it with a block of saurus characters in COC.

 

[stormtruperTK41]

Obviously this all depends on your meta and on your play style, but honestly I think we are better off without a slann. Most of the games I have won have been without him. I have taken to a new style of having one massive unit of saurus and building the rest of the army around it.

Last night I ran 2 old bloods and a scar vet bsb in a unit of 60 saurus with spears and command, that were support by 2 lvl2 beasts priests, 2 stegadons, one with eotg and both with sharpened horns, 2 skink clouds and some chamo skinks with a bastiladon sun ray.

I ran that against a nasty WoC list with the usual big unit of nurgle warriors hiding a bsb and lvl3 sorcerer lord, a demon prince tooled up, 2 gorebeasts, skullcrushers, and chaos ogres.

I won...All he had left was 2 fleeing ogres, a fleeing skullcrusher unit champ, and a fleeing gorebeast. There was no dawn for men.

I am happy to field questions or post my full list for those interested but I am telling you its hella nice.

 

[MarchoftheStegs]

That said I'n bored so I'm trying Lore o Light. LETS DO THIS.

Get a block of 6-8 WS10 I10 Kroxigors and watch EVERYTHING fall.

Get them A+1 and ASF and watch EVERYTHING fall FASTER

Im becoming a huge fan of Krox-blocks...but that is another thread

Yeah if you could get both those of on a Krox block that would be horrendous. For 6 that 21 s7 hits at i 10 WS 10. Star dragon evaporates.

 

[Asamu]

You don't NEED a slann to be competitive, but it's much harder to make a list without one work at a competitive level because cannons make them less reliable.

Running double old blood with 2 lvl 2 skink priests (1 heavens, 1 beasts) with the scroll and cube, and a scar vet BSB would probably work well for characters in a no-slann list.

If you aren't running a carnosaur, taking 1 or no monsters is probably the ideal. Just run more saurus/skinks, and probably either TG with the razor standard or Kroxigors for special, with 2-4 salamanders in rare.

Or you could just run a Slann oldblood, scar vet, and 1 skink priest (lvl 1 heavens), with a scroll on the slann and the cube on the priest; this has worked reasonably well for me so far.