AoS Dispossessed: Irondrakes and Ancestral Pickaxe

[Killer Angel]

Not Seraphon, but I have a doubt, and hope to clear it.



If I use the ancestral pickaxe on a hero to move said hero and a unit of Irondrakes, do they get the double shooting for the ability "Blaze away"?


As you probably know, the ancestral pickaxe is an artefact included in the GHB2017; you give it to a hero and "in you hero phase you can remove this model and up to one friendly dispossessed unit. They can be set up again at the start of your next hero phase anywhere on the battlefield... this counts as their move for the following movement phase"

one of the abilities of the Irondrakes is Blaze Away:
"Irondrakes can shoot twice
with their Drakeguns if they did not move
in their preceding movement phase"



Up 'til now, I've always thought that it wasn't possible for the drakes to pop up and shoot twice, as blaze away works if the drakes did not move, and the "teleport" of the pickaxe counts as movement.



HOWEVER, I was pondering about it.



The effect of the pickaxe happens in the hero phase.

Yeah, the ability says that "this counts as their move for the next movement phase".... but "counts as move" is not the same as effectively moving.

The Irondrakes don't move in the movement phase... they just did an action in the previous hero phase, and that action don't let them move.



Basically, they moved in the hero phase so they cannot move again, but for "Blaze Away" to work, the requisite is just that Irondrakes cannot move in the movement phase... and they don't effectively move.

To repeat myself, "counts as move" is not the same as "move", and Irondrakes technically moved in the hero phase.





Your opinion?

 

[Phoedinn]

I would say the key to this is whether or not there is a different wording of this elsewhere in the rules.

This says "counts as" as you said, BUT if there is another rule that is worded "they cannot move in their next movement phase" I would say this would block the ability triggering, as they are obviously drawing a line between the two scenarios.

My gut feeling is that this would count as any other move, where the teleport would be disorientating enough to stop them from being able to line up two shots In the end, might be something to ask your opponent about at the start of a game.

 

[pendrake]

ancestral pickaxe is an artefact included in the GHB2017; you give it to a hero and "in you hero phase you can remove this model and up to one friendly dispossessed unit. They can be set up again at the start of your next hero phase anywhere on the battlefield

My question is: how do you get teleporting out of what is obviously tunneling ?

 

[Aginor]

To me this - on first glance at least - sounds like the Saurus Guard weapon charge ability from the Eternal Starhost when you teleport them. It only works if you didn't move them, and the teleport counts as movement.
Also if you read the fluff text the pickaxe works by carving a tunnel through the ground and the unit walks through, that's movement.

I would also say it probably isn't intended that they shoot twice after a teleport.

Rules as written.... are pretty clear to me actually. They do move. "Counts as movement in the next movement phase" is answering "did they move in the movement phase" with "yes".

 

[Aginor]

My question is: how do you get teleporting out of what is obviously tunneling ?

Well, from a player's point it is removing the unit and setting it up again. That'S the way all the teleport abilities work as well.

 

[Killer Angel]

Also if you read the fluff text the pickaxe works by carving a tunnel through the ground and the unit walks through, that's movement.

I would also say it probably isn't intended that they shoot twice after a teleport.

Rules as written.... are pretty clear to me actually. They do move. "Counts as movement in the next movement phase" is answering "did they move in the movement phase" with "yes".

Imo RAW is not so undoubtely clear, even if i agree that's the most cautious interpretation.

RAI, we have to possibilities:

1) even if you don't move during the move phase, you moved in the hero phase and we don't want you to use any ability related to the move phase.

or

2) we don't want you to exit from the tunnel AND move in the move phase for a 3" charge, so this is just a way to say that you appear and then you stand still at 9" from the enemy

the two things are pretty much different.
The intention behind the writing of the rule IMO was the #2... if so, then things as "blaze away" may work.


As it is now, I wouldn't shoot twice, but it's a thing that falls in a sort of grey area. I was hoping to find someone that knew a "semi-official" ruling for it (tournament?)

 

[Aginor]

It probably has been a while since anyone played a Dispossessed army in a tournament so I fear it isn't very likely to get such a ruling.

 

[Canas]

To me this - on first glance at least - sounds like the Saurus Guard weapon charge ability from the Eternal Starhost when you teleport them. It only works if you didn't move them, and the teleport counts as movement.
Also if you read the fluff text the pickaxe works by carving a tunnel through the ground and the unit walks through, that's movement.

I would also say it probably isn't intended that they shoot twice after a teleport.

Rules as written.... are pretty clear to me actually. They do move. "Counts as movement in the next movement phase" is answering "did they move in the movement phase" with "yes".

Are there any teleport-like abilities that don't say "Counts as movement in the next movement phase" but say " "the unit can't move in the following movement phase"?

 

[Aginor]

The strike from the skies from a Shadowstrike maybe.
It isn't quite the same but close. It is also a set up and the unit can move.

I'll have to check a few more, Sylvaneth might have something like that as well. Most of them are "instead of moving" though.