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9th Age Discussion of OpenHammer (ETC) and Ninth Age (Swedish Comp)

Alrighty :)
Also I don't think he actually meant that javelins should go up in points because in one of his later posts he mentioned that it wouldn't have the wanted effect anyway, but he'd rather see that than the opposit. Mostly he doesn't prioritize the blowpipe/javelin issue at all where I think it's a good place to start since it's our core and something we're forced to take.
 
So I'm curious here.

According to the picture I posted on the buttom of page 9 we have 21 unique units (core, special, rare and characters), not counting special characters.
Unless I missed an army (lol) the average on 15 armies is 25 unique units.
So from our less than average list of units we have roughly 6 who are in most cases underused, not used at all or just mediocre: Ripperdactyls, Razordons, Skink Chief, (special) Stegadon, Troglodon, Jungle Swarms.

Or do people disagree with that? That's my experience coming on this board and other boards and from playing with the units.
From the least above I'd say Ripperdactyls, Razordons and Skink Chiefs are situational, baby stegadons, troglodons and jungle swarms are either hardly used or never at all.

That's not to mention unit variations such as blowpipe skirmishers and ark of sotek.
 
Looks like they updated the brb and army section a little bit to include....mostly nerfs for lizards?

Really?

Whenever the forum comes back online, I'm going to put in a word or two. I was never under the impression that lizards were a super powerful army that needs to be brought back in line. Are there seriously people who think that skirmishers are too powerful and need to be more expensive?

There doesn't seem to be any talk of increasing the price of Chaos Warriors or Skullcrushers, but skink skirmishers need to be knocked down a peg? Banner of the World Dragon can still be taken by any unit (3+ ward save vs all magic is still really good), but our characters need to be more expensive?

Am I missing something? Are skirmishers something people complain about?
 
Cowboys are actually the only thing people complain about concerning LM. We can very easily spam 1+ heroes with S5/T5 and a lot of them can have GW at no real penalty.

Also +1pts for javelins won't do much. At most we're talking 10pts each unit and we can only dublicate each unit 4 times so that's 40pts. It still won't change the look on blowpipes so that's a moot point they're trying to make ("forcing" people to use blowpipes).

Also I agree - why do we get a punishment in core? The point shouldn't be to make something not OP to be worse, but to be let the underused units be more valuable.

**EDIT**

freaking lol at the banner. It WAS above 50pts and thus only a hero banner. Now it's available for many of their elite units again.
 
List as of August 4th 2015.

I'm pinktaco and a representative from the Lizardmen forum www.Lustria-online.com
Since the news of both 9th Age and OpenHammer our community have discussed what we'd like to see in a potential LM update.

We've accumulated a list of suggestions we, as a community, feel is both reasonable and makes sense. Our overall goal wasn't to drastically change underperforming units, but rather take a safe approach and tweak units by observing changes and act accordingly.

Some will disagree with this approach, but we feel that it's very easy to go overboard. We especially talked about how other players/communities would think about certain changes. It's easy to completely overhaul the Troglodon, but we feel it should be done in s meaningful way and have come to the conclusion that while it would be neat with new and improved rules for the Troglodon we rather want to start out with a point reduction. We also think the Ark of Sotek Bastiladon needed a bigger incentive to actually take along with blowpipe skink skirmishers .

The following list isn't from one person, but the entire community also since first list I've added suggested changes from warhammer.org:

Predatory Fighter applies to supporting attacks.
Comment: PF is a mess. Allow it not becuase it'll boost our saurus units, but because it's annoying to throw seperate rolls and confusing for our opponents. A Cold Oone Rider unit will at minimum make 4 different rolls (front, second rank, additional PF attacks and mount). If you get off a reroll augment you can do the entire thing twice.
Allow PF in second because we want to streamline our rolls and not make them draw out and confuse out opponent.

Magic Items
Reduce cost of Horn of Kygor by 10 points.
Reduce the cost of the Jaguar Standard by 15 points
Make it clear that the Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza and Piranha Blade dont stack.


Characters:
Slann Mage Priests

Add
Focused Ferocity: Predatory Fighter units joined by aSlann may always test to restrain pursuit as if the Slann were a Skink character. This does not apply to other units within six inches of the Slann. If a Slann gains Fear orTerror, the Slanns unit is considered to possess Fear or Terror. (Slann special characters get this too.)

Note this will make Harrowing Scrutiny reasonable

Raise cost of Becalming Cognition by 5 points
Reduce Cost of Transcendent Healing by 5 points

Saurus Oldblood/Saurus Scar Veteran
Reduce cost of Carnosaur by 10 points
(Add the price increase on mounts already in the Alpha)

Skink Chief
Add
Beast Kinship: A Skink Chief mounted on a Terradon may join a unit of Terradon riders. A Skink Chief mounted on a Ripperdactyl may join a unit of Ripperdactyl riders. Mounted Skink Chiefs may not join any other unit.
Allow skink Chiefs to mount the bolt thrower on the (special) stegadon.
Comment: At first glance a BS5 bolt thrower seem overpowered, but once you add penalties and consider the price it's hardly true. It'll instead allow for more usage of both the baby stegadon and skink chief without being a super competitive choice.

Skink Priest
Unchanged

Core
Saurus Warriors
one unit of Saurus Warriors per army may take a magic standard worth up to 25 points).

Skink Cohort
Unchanged
Comment: while skink cohort could see some sort of change it's hardly a priority as of now. They still serve a function. One user did, however, comment a point decrease of 1pts.

Skink Skirmishers
Suggestion to make blowpipes more attractive:
  • +1 To Hit against large targets.
  • BS4 with an appropriate point increase.
  • Quick To Fire.
  • A seperate unit entry.
Comment: With a 5+ parry blowpipes need a decent change.

Jungle Swarms
Reduce cost by 5 points per model
Move to Core

Special

Temple Guard
Unchanged

Cold One Riders
Reduce costs of Spear upgrade by 2 points per model
May take a magic banner worth up to 50 points
Allow one unit to be Core
Comment: 2pts lances might be too cheap though, The 2pts price was suggested before the change on spears.
Core CoRs could be a Kroq Gar special rule, like he used to have in the 7th edition army book.

Kroxigor
Add Standard and Musician options

Terradon Riders
Make optional swap to Fireleech bolas free

Stegadon
Chief can use BS to mount the giant bolt thrower
Price decrease 20-30pts.
Comment The baby steg isn't actually bad-bad, it's just that for the price you might as well pick the ancient stegadon and have S6 impact hits.

Bastiladon
reduce base cost by 15-20 points
Solar Engine costs 15-20 points. Ark of Sotek remains free
Comment: With core swarms along with price reduction it *might* make the ark of sotek more interesting/attractive

Rare
Ancient Stegadon
Unchanged

Salamander Hunting Pack
Unchanged

Troglodon
Reduce cost by 40 points

Special/named Characters
Mazdamundi
Raise Leadership score to 10

Add to rules
Greatest living caster: Mazdamundi is treated as a 5th level caster

Lord Kroak
Add 10 points to the base cost

Kroq-Gar
Reduce base cost by 30 points
As mentioned previously allow for Cold One Riders to be core or just a single unit.

Chakax
Reduce base cost by 15 points

Gor-rok
Unchanged

Tettoeko
Raise Ld by one point
Raise base cost by 30-40 points

Tiktakto
Reduce base cost by 15 points
Change name to something less stupid. Teploq means death from the skies and sounds close enough to the original name
Allow Tiktakto to join units Terradons and possibly Ripperdactyls. He have a special rule that grants his weapon skill (4) to the unit he join - which he currently can't.

Oxyotl
Add Hates Daemons
 
Last edited:
What do you guys think about the list?
 
Increase skink javelins cost is due to increased parry.
 
It seems pretty good to me.

Is every unit with access to parry getting a price increase, or just skirmishers?

No one wants to use skirmishers as a combat unit. T2, no ranks. Who cares if they have a slightly higher parry rate? Skirmishers in combat are just going to die.
 
allow Tiktakto to join a unit of terradons... (and possibly ripperdactals).
 
LawGnome said:
It seems pretty good to me.

Is every unit with access to parry getting a price increase, or just skirmishers?

No one wants to use skirmishers as a combat unit. T2, no ranks. Who cares if they have a slightly higher parry rate? Skirmishers in combat are just going to die.
Click to expand...

The issue is that while that is true a parry of 5+ cannot be modified. So the issue of course is that while skinks are super squishy they still survive just long enough to become an annoyance, in close combat that is.
 
So this was written to me today:

Most up-to-date rules are in the General Discussion thread, first post, and they are generally updated daily (with ETC it might be 3-4 days without updates). It is a sneak-peek of a WIP, so it is bound to constant changes by its nature, if you'd want for something a bit more stable, I'd suggest you wait a bit. This document is IMO only suitable for someone following closely or for someone wanting to get a general idea but not focusing on rather any detail.

It's essentially one of the moderators telling me to GTFO unless I'm willing to put in more time. I thik I've done a decent job communicating between LO and the 9th Age forum. I made a tiny mistake and was told that above mentioned. I'm not dumb so I know what he insinuated. I'll just take a break from it :)
 
Yeah, that was a pretty jerkish thing for the moderator to say, especially to someone who has obviously been following along. I say go back every couple of days. We can argue about any changes they make at that point.
 
I hope they will use some colours to make it easier to read :)
 
well one good thing:

True line of sight is gone - now you just have to draw a line from your base to your opponent with no interruption.

Also some new magic items for those who haven't seen it:

Weapons:
Sword of strife 2+A now at 35pts.
Sword of anti hero is not just about being in base contact with the hero wielding the sword, but also his unit.
Soulrender is a GW with armour piercing at 20pts. Do we want that? S7 AP is brutal.
Fire pike is a flaming lance at 10pts

Armour:
Tricker's Helm is down to 35pts.
Bronce Harnesk is a one time 1+ armour save at 20pts.
Gambler's armour at 15pts
Enchanted shield grants 5+ armour, is that the same as +2 because otherwise it won't stack with our 5+ scaly skin <.<

Talisman:
Talisman of preservation at 50pts
Dawnstone 30pts

Enchanted items:
Crystal ball gains ASF, 35pts
Emerald ring give a 6+ ward vs shooting attacks with AP, 5pts

Arcane items:
Dispel scroll is now different, grants a +12 casting value to dispel
Essense of free mind allow you to pick a magic lore before the game begins, 70pts
Feebackscroll have no range and force your opponent to roll on the miscast table. Can be particular nasty if he rolls 4+ dice and doesn't get an IF, 50pts.
Wand of tranquilty = reroll dispel rolls like our discipline, 35pts.
Eartling rod = reroll miscast result, 25pts
Channel staff at 15pts (lowered?)

And a bunch of other things. A lot of the items got some minor tweaks in points and so on. A lot of arcane items got changed.

Banners are more or less the same.
 
Normally you'd pick a magic lore when creating a list, now (especially at tournaments with "locked" magic lores) you can see what army you're facing and then change magic lore.

For instance you might make an all comers list and pick a suitable BRB lore that fits your overall goal, but then you see you're up against Bretonnia and picks Lore of Metal.
 
Pinktaco said:
Then there's the fact that most people are fully aware that some of their units should be toned down (MC, chariot cannons etc). On top of that people are not good at making a fair point. For instance I tried hard to tell the HE thread that White Lions need some looking into. My mistake was that they took it as a nerf flat out. All I want is a +1pts increase and maybe a -1pts decrease on swordmasters. So a lot of the issues also come from how people propose changes because things can easily be misunderstood. I don't think most people have an issue with a mere price change because that's easy to make reasonable, however most people have an issue with actual stat changes.
Click to expand...

To be fair it does seems like the HE thread on the Warhammer forum has sort of done a sinus curve, and come back to the original conclusion you recommended, that is that a price increase and perhaps a slight change to the stubborn rule, would be a good solution.
I reckon this might be because there eventually came more severe suggestion, for nerfing the White Lions. It was interesting to follow people thoughts on the subject and I really believe that most of the people does see the issues with their armies.
Apparently they just need to be confronted with actual proper solutions, along side far-fetched completely "GamesWarkshop"-wierd-styled changes.

PS: I reckon it was better to continue the debate in the actual thread about it, since we were actual suppose to be discussing saurus warriors usefulness, in the other thread :P
 
In a way I think the developers have driven themselves in a bit of a corner. For example with the discussed HE and WoC.

Problem is that with such huge community project where you like to hear what other people think about stuff and make the decisions based upon them it is almost impossible to find one consensus. Therefore the developers would need to make decisions just based on their own ideas, feelings and calculations. But after that some people still disagree and won't accept the results. Hard job got to admit as you cannot please everyone.

Nevertheless I think they've done an awesome job so far with this and I'm still looking forward what they will bring out. Personally I would like to keep playing the 8th ed with just minor tweaks here and there but the 9th age seems to be the next best thing for me and I'll gladly take up on it if the people that I play with will also.

BR
Agrem
 
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