8th Ed. Did the book do it for you?

[Spiney Norman]

I reckon the one thing that would have made the book better would be...


A giant dinosaur that saurus ride.

like a stegadon... but bigger.

move swarms to core and terradons. use rippers as specials and have the ancient steg as a special but just cost a little more than he does.

Then a massive lumbering dino with 4 saurus on his back.... something like a TK monster in stats... T8 or something... they are dinosaurs... come on.

but make him ponderous.

Something that Saurus ride that is bigger than a Stegadon... You mean like a carnosaur?

I think I get what you mean, you want something else, a bigger dinosaur, perhaps a sauropod like an apatosaurus? The problem with that is I don't really see Saurus as the ponderous-dinosaur's-howdah-crewing type. I see Saurus much more as the up-close-and-personal savage fighters and I think it more fitting for them to be riders on fast and efficient carnivores than fat ponderous herbivores.

 

[Mr Phat]

To take this thread another way:

as ive mentioned im working on a spin-off armybook for the lizardmen, which has gone from being an expansion to something I hope could actually be played by themselves.

ive already come up with a quite a few concepts I am looking forward to share with you guys, but to stay on topic (and provide ammunition to a succesful book..)

if it didnt "do it for you"

what would have?
what is the lizardmen missing?

pls keep it short, no rules, statlines or direct ideas

just

"we need a wizard that isnt lvl 2 and that isnt a slann"
or "we need core options"

and most important: WHY do you think its missed?

for those of you who will help out: thanks in advance

 

[Mr Phat]

oh...and sorry if I ruined a perfectly good conversation, should I put this in the general chat forum?

 

[eppe]

Honestly I don't know if the book did it for me. I think we are still sort of pigeon holed into a specific build with very little variation. Just looking at the army lists it seems nothing much has changed from before this book came out. All the lists are similiar to what we ran before and they are also very similiar to one another. I think the lack of core variety is hurting us the most, that and that most our units sit in the special slot.

I like LM so I will continue to play them but I don't really feel that this booked changed much.

I'm playing the Kroak Skink Bomb list simply because it's different, though slightly less effective than a normal Slann list.

 

[Gor-rok]

oh...and sorry if I ruined a perfectly good conversation, should I put this in the general chat forum?

Yeah, I'd make a new thread, and be very specific in both title and original post what kind of feedback you want.

 

[Mr Phat]

noted!

 

[Daeghrefn]

No..
While overall I'm satisfied to the play this book, I am bitterly disappointed that the Carnosaur not only stayed the same, but that some rube decided it needed a points increase.
All it would take to make me happy is if the carnosaur had one tiny spec of survivability. (And scaled down carnosaur monstrous cavlalry using the old models would have ben totally sick.)

 

[warlorddrax]

i'm not very happy with the new book... i understand that the Slann and Lizardmen magic really needed a nerf, but i feel that this went way too far. they really didn't address any of the issues that the old book had, and we really didn't get much in the way of new toys.

but, honestly the biggest dissapointment in this special-character saturated phase of GW development is that there is no Nakai.

Nakai was referenced in both, the new and old books. but he has never appeared. i would have thought that we would get at least one new heroe or lord option or another spacial character of some kind, but no. we got nothing.

seriously GW, how long do i have to wait before i can run the sacred Kroxigor of the first spawning, Nakai the wanderer???!!

 

[Smexygor]

A knight in plates of metal has better armor than a monster who's hide is thicker than his shield. Makes no damn sense.

 

[Spiney Norman]

Honestly I don't know if the book did it for me. I think we are still sort of pigeon holed into a specific build with very little variation. Just looking at the army lists it seems nothing much has changed from before this book came out. All the lists are similiar to what we ran before and they are also very similiar to one another. I think the lack of core variety is hurting us the most, that and that most our units sit in the special slot.

I like LM so I will continue to play them but I don't really feel that this booked changed much.

I'm playing the Kroak Skink Bomb list simply because it's different, though slightly less effective than a normal Slann list.

I guess its a question of perspective, I think the options in the new book really opened out this edition, Saurus are now much more competitive than they were, Skrox are now less competitive (slightly over nerfed, but whatever). The Slann is now far less essential, and combat lords are much, much better, stegs are much more viable.

I guess there is always going to be a perceived limitation because our core section is so small, and very often that determines the shape of the list, but I think there is tremendous variety in every other slot in the list.

 

[Smexygor]

I have the opposite problem, with everything but stegs getting weaker or maybe evened out, my list needs to be the best stuff more than ever and that isn't as many things as it used to be. They didnt add any answers to previous glaring weaknesses, made some worse, and the versatility that was added is not backed by the power we used to have so there are several bad variations, and a few good ones. I've already suffered from predatory fighting, the handful of attacks I got per game weren't worth my Saurus block drawn out of position and summarily hit on 3 sides.

 

[Jabroniville]

Things I Like:

* MOAR DINOSAURS!! Easily my one big request, and they came through with a giant Carnosaur & the Bastiladons. Plus the new Terradon minis look cool.
* More options and variability- upgrades for Terradons (plus a new type that changes things a bit), Stegadon & Carnosaur. Scar-Veterans being able to take Carnosaurs makes them a viable option for armies of any size, and the Engine of the Gods being Character-less as an option does the same (preventing your Hero slots from getting clogged up).
* Free Spear Saurus and an Armour Save for Skinks, while also dropping Skink Leadership so that you don't see the "Skink Cloud" or "Tons of puny Skink unit" armies.
* The Bastiladon- weak on offense, but ridiculously cheap so that you can easily throw one or two in to assist your infantry or kill chaff.
* Temple Guard are cheaper, and Jungle Swarms are now worth taking- Swarms are one of the trickiest, worst options in the new play-style otherwise, so this was good.
* Retaining some of the best combat Lords & Heroes in the game, while not making the whole army centred around them, like Chaos & Vampire Counts.
* Razordons are cheaper and more worth taking compared to the pricier Salamanders.
* Access to High Magic, one of the best Lores in the game, and some very nice Slann Contemplations (or whatever they're called). It prevents the Slann from being overpowered like he was in 7th Edition.
* Kroxigors are stronger AND less expensive! A very nice prize!

Things I Don't Like:
* The Troglodon has such poor capabilities at each of it's "Specialties" that it's really not a default for any kind of list. I think they really crapped the bed on that one.
* The Ripperdactyls have a dumb name and goofy faces. The Carnosaur has such a small head he resembles The Incredible Hulk more than a T-Rex.
* Cold One Riders are too expensive for modern Cavalry, rendering them unlikely to be used that often. They really shot themselves in the foot there.
* I still don't "get" the Skroxigors, who I wasn't a big fan of in 7th either- they still have many of the same flaws. I think their best use is almost adding to your Core requirements in huge armies.
* That SWEET Skink Miniature with the Palanquin only being an option for the Special Character! My friends & I don't play with them, and I REALLY like that mini! I'd have liked an option for Lvl 3-4 Skink Priests to make the Slann less of a "take this if you want to actually win your game" choice.

So all in all, I was quite satisfied. Part of my wanted a GIANT Brontosaurus/Thunder Lizard ridden monster, but that would have TOTALLY stolen the thunder from the Stegadon. I always thought the Coatl idea was silly, so I'm glad we didn't see one. The army has more variability and options now, which is always a benefit.

 

[Cheeto]

I have the opposite problem, with everything but stegs getting weaker or maybe evened out, my list needs to be the best stuff more than ever and that isn't as many things as it used to be. They didnt add any answers to previous glaring weaknesses, made some worse, and the versatility that was added is not backed by the power we used to have so there are several bad variations, and a few good ones. I've already suffered from predatory fighting, the handful of attacks I got per game weren't worth my Saurus block drawn out of position and summarily hit on 3 sides.

I enjoy the new book, the Bastildon is soon becoming my MVP (though he didn't fair well against a dwarf gun-line, but does anything fair well against a gun-line lol), as once again he proves his ability to hold the line during key movements. Yesterday he held 6 ogres for two turns which was long enough for me to beat a gutstar unit YAY TG with Skavenpelt banner. I love the smuck out of HM, better than life or light. It may not be "BETTER" I just find it work's very well for me. No one likes seeing a steg behind there lines turn 1.

What weakness are you talking about. Cause we can now buff I, and WS to a decent level. Even with the lowest possible result for hand of glory and keeping the bastildon close by, you end up with I4 TG, nothing terrible there. Is it that skinks got a LD bomb, maybe I have just been rolling well lately but LD 5 with cold blooded I'm still passing regularly and my skinks can still be counted on fleeing/rallying and being a pain for my enemies. Salamander yes were nerfed but are still very good. Instead of just marching and spraying and praying. Use them as a means to control enemy movement. Place a unit or two in a key area and watch your opponent start to take the long way, or a turn or two to push the sallies out. Try putting them in buildings if you can.

Slann were nerfed, we took a hit to our ability to cast offensively, though we gained that with an extremely strong dispel phase. I rock mine out with extra channeling and re-roll dispel attempt, bring two skink priest caddies to control PF and carry cube and scroll. We have TWO dispel scrolls. I usually channel 1-2 extra dice which is proving to make all the difference with dispelling, as I have often found there has been a dice difference of 1-2. Re-rolling to dispel has saved my butt many times in stopping that key spell. So far my opponents have struggled to get a single spell off in there phase. Though I will see how well that holds up once I play my buddies TKs

I have to ask how you have been suffering from PF: are you not taking skink chiefs/priests. or are your opponents targeting your bunkers, where are you placing skinks. I have been rocking out two units of 10 skink cohorts, throw a priest in each, and have them hug my main combat blocks. They have been shot at a few times, but have never fled, nor have I lost a priest. Nor has my enemy been in a position to really charge them. Really a handful of attacks.... a handful. That handful has made the difference between winning combat vs tieing, or crushing win vs minor/moderate win. I enjoy PF and the look on my opponents face when I have a good roll and they see another handful of attacks headed there way. Maybe you play it the way supporting attacks are not effected by PF. Though at the GW I play at they allow all models in the unit.

 

[datalink7]

I have to ask how you have been suffering from PF: are you not taking skink chiefs/priests. or are your opponents targeting your bunkers, where are you placing skinks.

Being honest, that IS suffering from PF. You are being compelled to place skinks in a bunker near Saurus units, forcing you into a particular stratagem.

 

[Spiney Norman]

I have to ask how you have been suffering from PF: are you not taking skink chiefs/priests. or are your opponents targeting your bunkers, where are you placing skinks.

Of course I'm not taking any skink chieftains, just because they had a major points drop doesn't mean they're suddenly no longer awful. On a Ripperdactyl they have a slight chance of not being the worst value character choice in the army book.

Priests on the other hand I am taking, either one or two depending on whether I'm also running a Slann. I'm finding cohort bunkers are not reliable enough, Skirmishers are a far better option, both because they are harder to hit,more manoeuvrable and they can actually perform a role while they are babysitting your priest by shooting stuff.

 

[rothgar13]

To be fair, Skink Chiefs suffer by comparison to Scar-Veterans, who are amazing value for the points. O&G have a similar character setup to the Skink Priest in the Goblin Big Boss, and they don't complain.

 

[Cheeto]

I have to ask how you have been suffering from PF: are you not taking skink chiefs/priests. or are your opponents targeting your bunkers, where are you placing skinks.

Being honest, that IS suffering from PF. You are being compelled to place skinks in a bunker near Saurus units, forcing you into a particular stratagem.

Before I even knew the rules to PF my strategy revolved around using skink priests so really it wasn't that terrible to adjust to. Hum I already run 2 groups of 12 skirmishers, gonna try running them in a skirmish.

 

[datalink7]

To be fair, Skink Chiefs suffer by comparison to Scar-Veterans, who are amazing value for the points. O&G have a similar character setup to the Skink Priest in the Goblin Big Boss, and they don't complain.

That's because a bunch of Night Goblin Big Bosses, with Greatweapon and Toughness 4, in a unit of Night Goblins with Netters, is a very solid option.

 

[Smexygor]

Having to pay out of my hero slot for my blocks isn't versatile or "synergy", its forcing me to build my list that way or suffer a very exploitable weakness.

All of my skinks have run. I average a 6 in leadership. Guess what we don't have anymore? They didn't make it to half field before running and one rallied being near slann.

Bastiladon is fun, not superb, but good. Rest of the new models haven't added anything. Suicide rippers if you can pull that off, maybe.

I'm finding high magic good, but not as great as I assumed. I tend to have a spell for the situation but never quite a good enough one in most cases, or I don't have the dice to cast all the spells I need to keep my army flowing, or my last game where I paid all the points and channeled 3 dice off my slann, magic and dispel. All game. Statistics don't mean jack when they don't work in practice. The reroll dispel helped a couple times. If you aren't skimping on points go loremaster. Miscast adjustment may save you some heartache if you are lucky too. The rest of the disciplines? Meh, so far. Just like before.

They killed my go-to core for running a non Saurus block list. So either two blocks or a block and a few skirmisher units, every list. No difference, maybe spears, maybe not, doesn't tend to make that much a difference so far. Lost the other magic banner using unit, so less versatility there, champ for TG only gets a weapon so less there too. Outside Tetto'Eko no hero caster replaces a lvl4, we just don't have the army to run without it. We aren't the big boys anymore, with a big magical stick to wave around. Can't loremaster any lore, just high magic. And the swapping every turn thing just isn't happening. Maybe you get lucky, likely not, and you just grab the signature. But between dispels, casting the spells you already swapped for, bound spells everywhere, and wyssans being a 3 dicer off our skinks, we aren't willy nilly crafting our spell list like the hopefuls thought.

We were reduced, simple and clear. Some see a few ups be say "hey! That's nice though!" And I see the codices before us and go "why did we get knocked so far by comparison?"

 

[Zwuppie]

Things I Don't Like:
* The Troglodon has such poor capabilities at each of it's "Specialties" that it's really not a default for any kind of list. I think they really crapped the bed on that one.
* The Ripperdactyls have a dumb name and goofy faces.

These units are new and as you should know, first releases aren't perfect.. Sometimes it is overpowered and you know you gonna lose power on that unit in the next release, so you're fucked!
If a Troglodon isn't used much and isn't viable enough in this armybook, it would be better in next edition, because nobody is using it!

Rippers just have a huge overbite.. Agree with that, but even with overbite they do serious damage and work perfect ingame!!