8th Ed. Did the book do it for you?

[Mr Phat]

We all had some games now and tried out different things, and even though we might not have seen all the tricks the book has to offer yet the following question is still valid:

Did it do it for you?

to me...no.


I like most of what they did with the old units.
- Free Spear saurus,
- Cheaper TG which the slann can now leave.
- Predatory fighter.
- Krox S7
- CoC extra attacks
- Carnos for scar

and hey, we got High Magic...by the cost of loremaster for other lores though.

and so on...nice fixes.....but that is what it just is: fixes and adjustments.


What I absolutely dont like is
everything new seems so sadly rushed....all of it

Ripperdactyls
seems fun but the name sounds more as a working-title than something a payed concept department would come up with.
Also "how do we make them flying blenders? oh I KNOW! frenzy, killing blow and.........hmmmm ARMOUR PIERCING!" seems like a 2 minute brainstorm...the toad rule on the other hand is well done in my opinion.


Bastiladons
seems as an unfinished concept too. To me it seems like the developers couldnt decide if it should be a buff-wagon /boundspell or a tank-monster.

The special rules say big heavy armour with +2 save, ASL and "wruuaah I can take a charge from anywhere and dont care" and "EAT MAH' S10 TAIL!!"

while the stats says "well... maybe you should keep me out of combat? unless its chaff or core infantry! oh boy i'd like me that! "

if they could make up their mind I would like the thing more....cause I do like it...I just know that I could have loved it if it was consistent.

and finaly...

The pale death...the troglodon.....
its the only thing in the book with both predatory fighter and poison attacks....how can GW fail to implement this in its special rules?
like... one 6 to hit becomes two poison wounds instead of giving a new attack?

+

how can they give something so clearly a combat monster 3Attacks... and try to make up for it with a ranged attack?
furthermore...it is blind............so....it is blind and uses its whiskers to feel/smell its way around.........and?!
How can this NOT be reflected in its rules?!?!

Heres the FIRST concept that easily comes to mind:
The troglodon dosnt need eyesight, so the skink uses some kind of smokebomb to smokescreen the combat and give all other units in the combat besides the Troglodon -1 to hit...or....all enemies "to hit" roles on a 1 hits its own unit?

it could have been SO special, SO easily..



to top it all of...the "New art" watermark on page 21 just reeks of "yes, we rushed this"....deadline > quality.

I am so dissapointed by the quality of the work put into the new book that Im thinking of leaving the army behind...maybe even the hobby as Lizardmen got me here in the first place....reading through the 8ed HE and WoC books I just feel so left out...they have so much fun stuff that seems well written and useful....compared to them there is nothing in our new book I just cant wait to get my hands on...I actually dont think I will buy anything.

The new book havnt changed my army lists at all....same units I will be running the next 6 years, just with a little variation. I cant help but feeling that the potential has been dropped heavily on the floor...I think I could have done more with it without breaking a sweat.

 

[Spiney Norman]

Ok, well speaking for myself, yes it did, I love the new book, I love the new models, I love it all. I think on balance, for its day the 8th ed book is a far better set of rules than the 7th ed book.

Yeah its a shame about the "new art" watermark, but mistakes happen, at least the proof reading wasn't as bad as some previous publications, and at least they managed to spell the name of our big fat frog correctly this edition, after 5+ years of playing with my Slann Magwe-Priest.

Overall I think they did a good job with the army list and rules balance, sure the troglodon is a big fat turkey, but everything else is pretty well usable in the right list, even Razordons aren't as horrible as they were last ed, and heck they even gave me a reason to field jungle swarms, who ever thought that would happen?

This may be somehow coloured by the fact that I went the whole hog and bought the Ltd ed book, the scaly cover is so beautiful. What can I say, Lizards are my first and most loved army, whenever they get stuff I lap it up.

 

[hardyworld]

Did it do it for me? No. I agree with the original poster, but for different reasons.

The one thing I really wanted was a large (Stonehorn size) dinosaur for me to paint. Preferably as a rare slot (and probably making the "Ancient Stegadon" extinct leaving only 1 type of stegadon in the Special choices). It doesn't have to be a centerpiece type model (the Steg has always been our centerpiece and it's beautiful), but at least a good support unit (Thunder Lizard with S6 T7 W6, has -1 Initiative aura, and does 2D6 thunderstomps???). That is the one thing I wanted, and I didn't get it.

I love 8th Ed.: Saurus Warriors, Skink Skirmishers, Skink Cohorts, Temple Guard, Swarms, Terradons, Chameleon Skinks, Kroxigors, Bastiladons, Stegadons, Salamanders, Ancient Stegadons, Oldbloods, Scar-vets, Priests, Chiefs, etc.

I loath 8th Ed.:
Slann without Generations (it would have been so easy to reimplement)
Cold One Riders (we didn't need the extra attack, optional spears, and NO MAGIC STANDARD option...if they were 26 points each they would have been fine, possibly a move to core would have been interesting)
Ripperdactyls (what do they provide that terradons didn't already?)
Razordons (a unit of skink skirmishers is better shooting support, they should have been knight-killers, S5 armour-piercing shots, instead of useless)
Troglodon (I like the model, but he's near useless on the table, a 40 point discount would go a long way)
Carnosaur (I like the model, and ability of heros to ride, but no changes in stats/abilities means it's still overcosted, a 45 point discount would go a long way....or maybe just a change in cannons would go a long way)

 

[GCPD]

In a word: no.

Core choices made even more mind-numbingly dull than before ("I'll take x Saurus and y numbers of z Skinks to meet minimum Core").
Special overbloated.
Poor internal balancing: Special is about the only selection that you have any real choices to make, and even there its between only a handful of the units.
The Troglodon.
The inexplicably fluff-breaking and poorly thought out Predatory Fighter rule (Lizardmen combat units are too OP! They need more weaknesses! - And the Skink-negation isn't synergy. Synergy is when two parts come together to be better than they are individually; not where one part revokes an artificial and arbitrary restriction on how units in the game work).
Bad rule designs: Monstrous Flying Cav that need to be babysat; Jungle Swarm poison; everything about the Arc of Sotek; Carnosaur price hike; Skink close combat poison; the randomisation of the Solar Engine (You have to cast it! And then roll to see what damage it does! And then roll to see how much damage you do! And then finally roll to wound! - You can tell Vetock thought this was a great idea, because he did it again on the Quango egg).
The failure to address the real problems with units that underperformed: Solo Kroxigor weren't unpopular because they weren't S7 - but because they die to everything. Saurus Cavalry are still too expensive. Razordons are still rubbish.
Lack of new dynamics and variety: no cheap Skink Level 4; no new alternate infantry option.

In short: they nerfed the Slann, tinkered round the edges, added a bunch of seemingly poorly thought through new units and pushed it out the door.

If anything, the Slann nerfing will end a thousand tears. But you'll still see him, and there'll still be a ton of Skink chaff around him. I really don't see the dynamic changing nearly as much as it did for High Elves, Warriors of Chaos, Daemons of Chaos, or Vampire Counts - and that's a real shame and a real missed opportunity. Here's the new Lizardmen: same as the old Lizardmen.

There's some things, like the Slann nerfing, that the book does well. Stegadons, for instance. But there's nothing that has that 'wow' factor to it. And I'm not just talking about Daemon Princes or Demigryphs or Frost Phoenixes: I mean the new unit that really shakes up the meta, or the new choices that really drive inspiration in list design. Perhaps we've seen power creep recently, because I come away with the distinct impression that everything feels a little underpowered; like its just missing that edge.

I'll still play it, because Lizardmen are my first love and I'm a sucker for an underdog, but I can't help but look at what we got and feel a little hard done by.

 

[Andrinor]

Not really but I'm not totally disappointed.

My big wishlist was a huge monster, sacred spawnings and a Coatl that could be rare or taken a skink priest mount. Obviously, none of that stuff was in there. I do really like the Bastiladon and I'll find some use for the Ripperdactyls. The Troglodon is just a real bummer. Super cool model...lame rules. No good reason to take it.

As far as changes to the existing range. Lots of good and great stuff there. I don't like all of it but the changes have made a lot more units worth taking.

 

[Chunk]

Did it "do" it for me?

Probably not.

Did it make me ragequit the army because it changed too much? Hell no.

The only criticism I can level is one that has been put forward already, and that is that not enough changed. Most Lizardmen armies are gonna look the same as they always did, not necessarily because new options aren't there, but because the old options are as good (or better) than they used to be, the only exceptions I can think of for this are Jungle Swarms (which gained Poisoned utility) and Kroxigor (who finally received the str 5 they needed to make them a solid choice).

But yeah, I'll keep playing with it, and apparently winning with it, out of the 3 games I've played I've won all 3.

 

[Scalenex]

I'm overall satisfied. The Slann couldn't have been better for me if I wrote the new rules myself. Now you aren't going to see one Slann build over and over again (okay admittedly I miss easy access to Lore Master).

I like the look of the new models (except the Rippers). The Troglodon is a bit overcosted but every new book has something overcosted.

I really like the makeover Skink Priests and Swarms got.

It's better than I expected it to be but not better than I hoped it would be.

About the only thing I wish we got was Skink Horned One Riders, but I wasn't expecting those to get. I wouldn't have minded a Sea Monster dino or the ability of Skink Priests to ride Terradons. I also miss Venom of the Firefly Frog but I didn't expect to keep that since the new books don't have a lot of cheap magic items.

 

[Myster2]

No it did not.

I have actually found the new book has limited my tactics other than added to them. Its too bad as I was really hoping for better with this release.

 

[Gor-rok]

Nope.

I spent a good couple of days reading the new book and writing lists before I punched anything up on the interwebz, trying to form an unbiased opinion, and I still couldn't help but feel let down. As others have mentioned, the whole thing seems rushed; there's plenty of concepts with potential that just don't follow through.

I'm not a power gamer by any means, and I love trying out different army builds and overlooked units. With this book though, most of the stuff I already used got balanced or slightly better, but there's nothing new here that's fun or functional. Where they erred on the side of excess in the last few releases, here they were afraid to shake things up even a little bit.

It's not like I'm totally despondent about things, but I was at least hoping to feel compelled to rush out and buy a few of the new models, or dust off my Razordons, or... something.

 

[Pofadder]

As many posters above have stated: NO!

Not because Slann and sallies etc got nerfed. More about missed oppertunities as mentioned before. Our 2 monster kits are so underwhelming rules wise that I hope GW sales suck on them.

I had great hopes for the Carnosaur and GW just kept it the same with 2 upgrades that can be taken, bit of a slap in the face for its customers, especially seeing its one of the most expensive fantasy kits currently! Troglodon does not even warrant further mention Bastilodon, its cheap points wise, but really half baked. Rippers can be good, even though they are not tough enough / or have decent initiative to get their attacks through before they die to just about anything...

PF could have been good, but the shitty downside of the rule overshadows the 1 in 6 chance for some extra attacks in the front rank only (will see if this gets FAQ'd). Core is to lean, special is waaaay bloated.

So yes I mirror the posts above in my ruminations...

I do not feel its all doom and gloom I like the new Slann, our SC are cool now. I like High Magic. I was hoping for more variety and does not feel it was effectively delivered.

 

[Mr Phat]

Nope.


I'm not a power gamer by any means, and I love trying out different army builds and overlooked units. With this book though, most of the stuff I already used got balanced or slightly better, but there's nothing new here that's fun or functional. Where they erred on the side of excess in the last few releases, here they were afraid to shake things up even a little bit.

It's not like I'm totally despondent about things, but I was at least hoping to feel compelled to rush out and buy a few of the new models, or dust off my Razordons, or... something.

You summed up my feelings to the point...
I felt like a kid christmas eve (which to further proof my point is also my birthday) when I saw the new models.
And when the White Dwarf pictured something that to most hinted that sacred spawnings where back ...were just a promise of years of fun to me.

The first disappointment.
"its just a cheerful coloring scheme" ...eh..what? why would you paint it like that then? did you not KNOW that we would all think that this meant sacred spawnings?...how can Games Workshop NOT have forseen this? or did they just not care?

The second dissapointment
okay..no coatl, and no carno-cav.. we all had this feeling anyway and to be honest most of us knew we wouldnt get it. Possible MC would have been filled by something else...so this one didnt hit me hard...cause the TROGLODON LOOKED SO COOL! (kid 8 years pushing his face to the GW store glass)

The Third dissapointment
What do you mean they are named ripperdactyls?...........

The Fourth dissapointment
The book came out...the Trog looked weak...and after deep analysis (from my part at least) I found its use...but far to weak to live up to itself.

at least The bastiladon looked cool! until playtested..the living fortress dies to core cavalry, the boundspell seems powerful but it is way to random.

the ripperdactyls seems good...but I dont feel like taking go to die blenders as part of my playing style.

The fifth dissapointment
I have a carnosaur.....and rarely play special characters ...so no new models for me?........no new toys?..........
oh....I see...so my army will be the same as always?....hmm...might pick up a box of skinks now im here...



I know its easy to point fingers without actually contributing...so I actually think I will take a go on fixing the units......am educated in concept design afterall.

 

[Spiney Norman]

I think the only major disappointment for me was that the model clearly labelled as "Skink High Priest" in white dwarf did in fact turn out to not be a high priest at all, the thought of being able to field a regular level four without having to pay 100+pts more for a load of bells and whistles I could do without and pretty well being forced to pay another 300pts for a TG bunker to put him in made me happy for all of seven days until I realised how misled I had actually been.

And while its true we didn't carnosaur cavalry we did get, you know, a carnosaur and he looks frickin awesome (did anyone really think, in their heart of hearts, that GW would give us units of S7 thunder stomping dinosaurs?).

Its take a while but I quite like the name ripperdactyl, and the toad rage rule makes me chuckle every time I see it written down,

 

[Anton_S]

Yes it did. True, there are some missed opportunities in there but on the whole I'm happy.

Good things:
+ Background section is nice and long. Unless I remember it wrong it has been expanded since the last book.
+ More and improved art.
(+) Very nice feel to the Limited Edition book. Doesn't apply to everyone.
+ Toned down overpowered units. I love the Slann model and I want to field it with lots of upgrades as is appropriate and not feel dirty for doing it. Same goes for the Salamander, to some extent.
+ Ripperdactyls. Very interesting unit and the Toad Rage rule is hillarious.
+ All the new models. Lizardmen now have a strong lineup of plastic sets, which is one of the most important things for an army to me.
+ Better Saurus Cav. They weren't too bad before, now they will be wicked.
+ Bastilodon. Cheap, tough and multi-purpose. It doesn't do that much damage but I'll have a place for it. Low price means I can bring more dinosaurs and still have a decent amount of infantry.
+ Temple Guard no longer cost an arm and a leg (just the arm). Great unit, will also benefit a lot from easier access to multi-lore buffs.
+ Cheaper Skink Chiefs.

Bad things:
- Making the Skrox unit weaker. There was no reason to allow attacks against the Kroxigor, people hide in the second rank all the time and attack from there, so why make an exception?
- Troglodon stats. I don't think the other new monsters are as weak as the Internet make them out to be, but I just can't think of a good way to use a Troglodon considering the price tag.
- Predatory Fighter. I appreciate the extra attacks (and I think the FAQ will allow them from the second rank as weill), but my image of Saurus Warriors has always been one of highly disciplined warriors. The background describes them as having an instinctive grasp of military tactics and status as leaders in times of war, so it shouldn't take a Skink to keep them in line.
- No plastic Kroxigor and no Razordon/Salamander combined plastic kit.
- No new lord/hero choice.
- Razordon still outclassed by Salamander in every way and cost not reduced enough to make good use of the unlimited unit size. Another 10 points would have done it.

 

[FavoredoftheOldOnes]

While I have not played a game with the new book yet but having read it through enough times I can say I agree/disagree on some things already mentioned.

I agree that there were definitely some missed opportunities as there are just so many cool things I'm sure we all can (and probably have) think of to include in our army as far as new models, units, rules, etc go. I think that balance wise this edition has done well but at the same time I do agree that you probably won't see army lists change all that much from last edition. Not saying this is a good or bad thing just saying that lists will remain mostly the same.

I also wanted to mention that a lot of what was said (mostly pointing my finger at the original poster) seems like a lot of "wishful/hopeful thinking" and not realistic enough. I see a lot of "I want, I want, I want, I want" and "we should have gotten this" or "why couldn't we have got this." Let's grow up a little and be grateful for what we DID get. Sure some things might be a little lack luster (troglodon) but we can't expect them to give us everything. Yeah some books might have more choices or more variety to them but hey that's how it (GW) is. Here's to wishful thinking for the FAQ and the next edition

 

[Mr Phat]

(mostly pointing my finger at the original poster) seems like a lot of "wishful/hopeful thinking" and not realistic enough. I see a lot of "I want, I want, I want, I want" and "we should have gotten this" or "why couldn't we have got this."

If you are reading this post as a "we should have gotten this" then you are reading it wrong.

What I AM saying is that what we DID get isnt worked out or thought through.
I fail to see how the demand of a whole-hearted product goes under wishful thinking as to me it is what should be expected...not wished for.

They want the Bastiladon to be a living fortress
It isnt..its a carrier, thus a poor design.

They want the Troglodon to be "among lustrias deadliest hunters"
It isnt...its a support unit....thus poor design.

that is two undeniably failed concepts, which means they arent worked through. When I say "failed opportunities" I am not talking about a coatl we will never have or the carnoriders...im talking about what these new units couldve been.




I would prefer you took your fingerpointing and kindergarten positivism elsewhere, because this is not a conversation of between grumpy kids that didnt get the toys they wished for, but for customers who arent satisfied to wait 6 years for a last minute product.

 

[Spiney Norman]

I think the bastiladon is a living fortress (unless you wanted battlements, a drawbridge and room for skinks to sleep), it seems to me they were going for a mostly defensive dinosaur that has some strengths (2+AS) and a few weaknesses (S4), I think you probably missed the part where it is only 150pts. I kind of like how all the dinos have different roles, I'm not sure it would have made great sense if the troglodon was just a copy of the carnosaur with a skink rider, I just wish they had made it passably good at something.

 

[Rettile]

no, no, no. I hate the magic phase we're gonna have: no more loremaster nor bonus dices on the slann and no 4th level skinks, so you still NEED to take the slann. I know the old extra dice was OP, but why not a D3 bonus dice in each phase or an extra +1 to cast spells or a level 5 wizard? so you have to pay 300 points for a nearly normal 4th level wizard while other armies pay them 200. We only have 300+ points level 4° and wizards with 2 lores max level 2. We NEED magic because LM are not a smashy army (we could be if they gave us a real MC or monsters with regeneration or something). I much prefer to have an army which has to use synergy between units to work well, or i would play chaos warriors or dwarfs, but the new army book doesn't show synergy: all our units, expecially the new ones, need magic buffs. And Vetock nerfed our magic phase. Blasterdons and ancient steggies now use bound spells, so they steal our precious power dices. Our core choice is worse than before: at least we could choose between saurus warriors, skirmishers and skrox. Now why should you take skrox? and we have too many special choices: everyone will field chamaleons and temple guard and probably bastiladons, kroxigors and ripperdactyls (who actually are the only new unit that i really like), so there's no room for terradons (why should you take them? you have chamos for warmachines and rippers for a quick and hard hitting unit), cavalry (i was hoping these guys would be improved...), stegadons and swarms (now they are playable, but they are special...). Rare section? I see only the ancient steg and the sallyes. The only things I like are Kroak, Tetto'Eko, beast skinks and rippers. I love lizard and i won't leave them, but this book makes me too sad...

 

[Pulstar]

Perception. It’s all about perception.

To give a back ground of where I am coming from, my other two armies are High Elves (since 4th edition) and Tomb Kings who I started when 8th came out.

I am just starting my Lizards and I love the new book. Everything I have read in the book places it in the top cut of the 8th edition books. Maybe not as good as WoC and OK, but equal to or better the HE book. (The TK book is just a cruel joke….)

Magic in 8th is very different from magic in 7th. It’s random. To have a great magic phase you have to spend between 25 to 30 percent of your points on it. It’s random. The power of the 8th edition BRB lores is very high, but is balanced by the fact that access to the spells is random. (Did I mention that the whole phase is random?)

So let’s start with how skinks priest got beast magic. For cheap, you can reliable get to one of the best buff in the game. In an army that has access to S4/T4 2A 4+/6++ parry core, this cannot be over looked.

The Slann get toned down in power, but he still remains the most versatile caster in the game.

A level 4 that can take all 8 sig spells with a special rule to get around the short range of some of the MM spells.

High lore master with the ability to switch spells to a lore that is effective vs your current opponent mid battle.

Both of those are crazy good. The 8th edition Slann in 8th edition magic is better than the 7th edition Slann in 7th edition magic. There, I said it.

The 7th edition Slann in 8th edition magic broke all the checks and balances that 8th built into the phase. All of the extra arcane items from the 7th ed book did the same, so they had to go as well.

It’s the same thing that happened to every 8th edition book so far. Look at all the items the HE lost. The Empire lost the ability to automatically generate dispel dice. The Tomb Kings went from not needing power dice at all to having to over-dice middle level buffs just try and bring their abysmal troops up to a completive level. (Which then leads warp suckage of the only thing keeping the army together.)

LM magic in the new book is still top shelve for 8th edition.

Let’s look at the rest of the book and a lot of the complaints I keep reading.

“Core selection is limited.” Cheap chaff. Check. Speed. Check. Solid Defensive troops. Check. STR 7 attacks (something no other book can get in its core tax) Check. Cheap Poison attacks, both shooting and hand-to-hand, Check. They did more in three entries then I do all day…

“The Bastiladon isn’t tough enough.” What? T5 2+ AS for 150 points. This thing is 3 times as hard to take down with STR 3 attacks then the warsphinx is. For 2/3 the cost. It’s dead even at STR4 for the same 2/3 cost. And it has a laser on its head.

LM already have a good monster at the 210-230 range. Why would anyone want another one? If they buffed this things defense, then it would have cost the same/more than the Steg. Moreover with the addition of cannons to two more armies (OK and DoC) high price monsters aren’t the best way to go. I get that everyone wants a cannon proof monster, but they would cost 300+ points and there isn’t a lot of places in a list for a monster that big.

“Troglodon” – I get this isn’t the kit anyone wanted. But the Scarnosaur is great and they needed to add something to fill out the duel kit. But it’s a good looking model has some use on the battle field. (There are plenty of things that don’t like the idea of a poison D3 wound attack). It’s fluff isn’t as far out of left field as the HE phoenixes were.

“Predatory Fighter” – I’m going to start a thread where people can come in and list the number of times that a unit with PF had to overrun when it didn’t want to and if it cost them the game. Six months from now, when the third real post goes into that thread I will be willing to call this a weakness. It’s not a forced overrun. It’s a forced purse. And every third line of fluff in the book talks about how Slann issue orders though skinks. P.S. – Extra attacks = good.

I could go on, but this is a good 8th edition book. Be happy with it because it can do things in all phase that no other the new books can do. Magical flexibility, STR 7 core, durable cheap monsters, rock hard characters, great chaff. Not sure what more you could be looking for.

 

[Spiney Norman]

“Predatory Fighter” – I’m going to start a thread where people can come in and list the number of times that a unit with PF had to overrun when it didn’t want to and if it cost them the game. Six months from now, when the third real post goes into that thread I will be willing to call this a weakness. It’s not a forced overrun. It’s a forced purse. And every third line of fluff in the book talks about how Slann issue orders though skinks. P.S. – Extra attacks = good.

I could go on, but this is a good 8th edition book. Be happy with it because it can do things in all phase that no other the new books can do. Magical flexibility, STR 7 core, durable cheap monsters, rock hard characters, great chaff. Not sure what more you could be looking for.

While I agree with most of what you've said forced pursuit doesn't have to regularly "cost you the game" to be a damned inconvenience. I can't identify a single game where being unable to march has cost my tomb king army the game, but is it massively inconvenient in every game that I play with them? You bet it is...

The problem with pred fighter is not that it will cost you a game, its that so many posters are rejoicing as though it is some kind of massive boost to Saurus quite unaware of how poor the advantage is (an extra attack from one in every 6 attacks made by front rankers only) compared to the massive disadvantage (needing a skink character within 6" of every Saurus unit in your army).

 

[Mr Phat]

Perception. It’s all about perception.

well, heres where I am coming from:

To make something clear to everyone

I love everything they have done to the old units....everything, not a damn thing I dont like, all the nerfing makes sense to me...good job GW...you really payed attention to the meta and what people said, and its all more as it should be..well done...

but here it ends...because


I hate everything about the new units, they are rushed and anyone who has a small idea about concept-development will see too many contradictions in the "whole picture" to call this a finished product.

“The Bastiladon isn’t tough enough.” What? T5 2+ AS for 75ss. This thing is 3 times as hard to take down with STR 3 attacks then the warsphinx is. For 2/3 the cost. It’s dead even at STR4 for the same 2/3 cost. And it has a laser on its head

Want me to pull out another monster from another book with another price tag and go compare them to prove my point it isnt tough? .... dosnt make sense?...no...I know.

What im saying is: its not an ankylosaurus if it cant take a beating from S4 units....the end...choose another dinosaur
it actually seems to me like the Bastiladon is two concepts put together...the buff wagon and and the tank....its just sad that its a 50/50 hybrid.

I get this isn’t the kit anyone wanted. But the Scarnosaur is great and they needed to add something to fill out the duel kit

"to fill out"....yes..its a filler....dont give us a filler...leave it out if it dosnt add up.

There are plenty of things that don’t like the idea of a poison D3 wound attack

....like there are plenty of things that would hate getting hit by a giant bow too....sadly there is also plenty of things that laughs at us when we try to hit anything with a single bs3 attack.

"buff it with magic?"

(Did I mention that the whole phase is random?)